A month ago I called IR about my RDA-7.1 amp and talked to a guy named ... Jose, very nice and helpful guy...

R
Do you have a phone number?

Do you have a phone number?

1-800-225-1946.

R

Were any conclusions reached on whether the RDC-7.1 does upsampling or not? Does anyone know how to turn this feature on/off or is it always on? I just received my 7.1 and can't really determine if I am getting upsampling of my digital audio sources or not. Thanks in advance.

On page 6 of the manual it is mentioned that the RDC-7.1 does digital upsampling but there's no way that I know of to turn it on/off. If the RDC-7.1 does indeed do upsampling then I assume that it's always on. On the old RDC-7 one could turn digital upsampling on/off.

R

On page 6 of the manual it is mentioned that the RDC-7.1 does digital upsampling but there's no way that I know of to turn it on/off. If the RDC-7.1 does indeed do upsampling then I assume that it's always on. On the old RDC-7 one could turn digital upsampling on/off.

R

I found the earlier post on upsampling that stated the same. I was hoping new information had come to light since then. It is kind of frustrating. I don't mind upsampling being always on, but would at least like some status indication that this was the case. Thanks for the reply.

I unfortunately did experience a similar issue with my second unit, where the volume level would change in the center channel speaker after a considerable delay. I have now been without my unit for two months. What exactly is taking so long is beyond my comprehension. This becomes even less acceptable when I think about the four months I waited for them to take action to resolve my issues. They never did. I finally just got tired of waiting and dropped the unit off. With 2020 hindsight, I now realize I never should have believed they would take responsibility (as they promised they would), and I should have dropped the unit off the day after I picked it up and realized it was defective.

I still really love the features and the sonics of this processor. However, I am so incredibly fatigued by this long journey of trying to get one that actually works. It's like dating a supermodel who suffers from schizophrenia. I can't decide if its worth it in the end. We'll see what happens when I finally received my third unit (my first unit worked perfectly except for the HDMI card).

Raz, I'm sorry you did not like the ATI2007 better, sorry to give you a disappointing referral (I still enjoy mine). I continue to have wet dreams about a McIntosh 402, although I become increasingly more interested in the soon-to-be released upgraded version of the Nuforce Reference 9.

Evan

Where did you send your unit?

I dropped the sucker off at my dealer, and they sent it off to IR which is apparently very close by. I really hope the next one has no issues, I very much want to keep it. I love the thing when it works. Howerver, I am at the end of my rope at this point. Wish me luck (I may need it)!

Evan

I dropped the sucker off at my dealer, and they sent it off to IR which is apparently very close by. I really hope the next one has no issues, I very much want to keep it. I love the thing when it works. Howerver, I am at the end of my rope at this point. Wish me luck (I may need it)!

Evan

Why is it taking so long to get a new unit? 2 months is unacceptable, is the RDC-7.1 on back-order?

R

Yeah I agree - that's both weird and unacceptable.

TM

I spoke with my dealer today (they really are the nicest guys in the world), and received more information on why there has been such a long delay in getting my processor fixed. IR has apparently decided not to fix the unit, but to send me a new one instead (whew!). However, they are waiting for a new (software/firmware?) addition to be completed until they send me the new unit. I'm afraid I don't have any idea what exactly this encompasses, or what updates this entails. I suppose it must be good news, and perhaps another step forward in terms of stability. I will apparently have the new unit in my greedy little hands soon. When I do pick it up, I will attempt to get more information about what all of this means.

If my third unit is a stable as my first one, I will be extremely happy. I am not getting the third unit with the HDMI card this time. I'm hoping that the new version of this module will have more interoperability when it is eventually released, as it will be a more advanced version of HDMI spec (1.2?). I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the third time will be a charm. I have been somewhat fortunate in that my dealer has let me use an older IR 7 they had on hand in the meantime (I think it was probably from a customer who took advantage of the upgrade program to the 7.1).

Evan

. . .I am not getting the third unit with the HDMI card this time. I'm hoping that the new version of this module will have more interoperability when it is eventually released, as it will be a more advanced version of HDMI spec (1.2?).
The current version should be named v.2 or, at best, v.85. The upcoming version will hopefully deserve a whole number.

An used RDC-7 just sold on Audiogon for $1000. It seems that the $2000 trade-in offer wasn't such a bad deal after all...

R

An update on my RDC 7.1. I updated the firmware, and my volume issue is greatly reduced. Not instantaneous, but acceptable. I just received the ferrite cores, and will report if that solution is also acceptable. If so, this is as close to perfection as I can think of for now, until the new codecs arrive. Hopefully for us we'll be ready for them!

An used RDC-7 just sold on Audiogon for $1000. It seems that the $2000 trade-in offer wasn't such a bad deal after all...

R
Wasn't that a year ago?

A new member here...

I've owned an RDC-7.1 for quite some time now, but can't recall a time
when everything was working properly.

The first unit was riddled with irritating problems, from non-functional
i-Link, through inability to update F/W, to quitting altogether from time
to time. It took forever for Integra Research to respond. Jose made
many promises (none of which materialized). When I finally lugged the
unit to the Service Center, they shipped it off to IR. An IR engineer
actually called me, stating that I was mistaken, the unit was fine, and
that they will get back to me in a couple of days. Three weeks later,
the Service Center called to tell me that the unit was back. Turned out
they replaced it with a seemingly new unit.

The new unit has functional i-Link and sounds good. I would be happy,
except that it's plagued with the delayed volume response problem.
By 'delayed', I mean it either responds later, or much later, or much,
much later, or not at all. Same for the mute function.

Before I drive it back to the Service Center, a question... What is the
current F/W revision? Mine is V1.09. If there is a later version, where
do you guys get it?

TIA,

-- Ron

Wasn't that a year ago?

The trade-in offer expired on December 31 2005, 7 weeks ago.

R

Before I drive it back to the Service Center, a question... What is the
current F/W revision? Mine is V1.09. If there is a later version, where
do you guys get it?


1.09 is the current version.

R

The trade-in offer expired on December 31 2005, 7 weeks ago.

R
And started when?

Hi All,

I need a little advice with interconnects. My current setup is a bit bright sounding (Wooden floor might be the reason) and I'm planning to move my Power amp to underneath the centre speaker which means new XLR interconnects (3 or 4M).

Any recommendations? I will probably replace my QED silver speaker cable and BI-Amp too, any ideas on "Smoother sounding" speaker cable

Hey Krober

The physical sound treatments I added to my room have made a bigger difference in my acoustics, than any change I have experienced with components/cabling etc... Some inexpensive acoustic absorbing sound panels or heavy curtains or a good thick rug will go a long, long way to taming the issue with brightness that you are dealing with. I couldn't believe the improvement I experienced after I invested in some of these additions in my space. I plan to do more.

Athough software sound equalization would not be a cure-all, it would be awfully nice if they ever make available a module to include this feature. I don't have high hopes for this, but who knows?

Evan

Thanks Evan, I've got a big rug down and 7 foot high thick curtains behind the listening area and I've pretty much exhausted what I can do on that front. Since I need to purchase new ICs and speaker wire due to changes in the length required I was hoping to hear from people who had tried a few different ones with the IR. At the moment I'm thinking Blue Jeans or maybe Liberty Z500. Common brands here in the UK are Chord, Nordost (My current ones are Solarwind XLRs) and Black Rhodium.

Sorry, Krobar, I hadn't realized you already took that course of action. Try some of the online cable manufacturers such as Cobalt Cables (which I both use and love). I believe many of them offer a moneyback guarantee, which would enable you to try several different types of cables and only pay for return shipping if you weren't happy.

Evan

Jose made
many promises (none of which materialized).[/I] When I finally lugged the
unit to the Service Center, they shipped it off to IR. An IR engineer
actually called me, stating that I was mistaken, the unit was fine, and
that they will get back to me in a couple of days.

it's plagued with the delayed volume response problem.
By 'delayed', I mean it either responds later, or much later, or much,
much later, or not at all. Same for the mute function.



So sorry to hear about your problems Ron. I am really getting frustrated with this company. So many of us have shared exactly the same type of malfunctions with these units. Surely, the IR team is by now completely familiar with these specific issues, as they have been confronted with them time and again. Why then, this this seemingly surprised reaction, that they can't seem to figure out on their own, when we tell them exactly what's going on when we send the units in for a fix?

It seems to me the only appropriate response is "yes, we are aware of this issue with other units, and will immediately fix, or send you a new one". The way this is being handled, and the lack of tech-support following through with their promises is really unacceptable.

Geffen (a much, much smaller company) is now offering a 4 into 1 HDMI switcher that is 1.2 compliant (and actually competently handles HDCP). I am hoping ONKYO/IR will duplicate this accomplishment.

Evan

Raz,

You're like a magnet for bad bad QC. :)

Raz,

You're like a magnet for bad bad QC. :)
Shhhh! Don't jinx him. :D

I'm happy to report that the ATI amp is the only component that I have not had problems with (yet! ;)). Oh yeah, and my speaker cables seem to also work without any problems :D

Evan

I just suggested in the Onkyo TX NR1000 Thread, that perhaps we could create our own master list documenting what display devices/source components don't work with the HDMI module. This would not only be beneficial to us guys that own the ONKYO/Integra/Integra Research units, but perhaps even more importantly, it would be a useful resource we could send directly to ONKYO in the hopes they could devise a firmware update. At the very least, it might be beneficial for their development of their newer HDMI card.

I believe we have a rather large body of experience between these three threads. If we all listed what components we know do, and don't work with the HDMI module, I'd bet we would have a rather comprehensive list. I was told six months ago by tech-support, that they were aware they did not have an opportunity to test the HDMI module with every display device/source component out there (although I'm wondering if they did any testing because the card does not seem to work with their ONKYO SP 1000 DVD player!). although some of these issues may have to be first addressed in the source component themselves, in my particular case, every device I used unsuccessfully with the HDMI module worked perfectly with my external Geffen DVI switcher. So theoretically, the HDMI card could be fixed to work better than it does now. so, should we begin to create our own master list regarding the HDMI module?

Evan

I'm game. Here or in a new thread?

TM

Hey Tony,

I did just start a feeble attempt at making a thread to document these issues. However, I really have no idea what I'm doing or how best to design a thread for this purpose. Feel free to ignore the incompetent thread I started, and if you want (or anybody else) to start another. There are so many variables in this complicated dilemma. How to differentiate whether the problem is with the display device or the source component? Actually, a brighter person than myself probably could use this data to figure this out. Come to think of it, wouldn't it be nice if the professionals at Onkyo did just that! :rolleyes:

Evan

I'm happy to report that the ATI amp is the only component that I have not had problems with (yet! ;)). Oh yeah, and my speaker cables seem to also work without any problems :D

Evan
FWIW, I have an ATI2007 that works perfectly as does the 1505 (that it replaced in the home theater) that is now on my 5.1 computer rig. And my RDC-7 worked - and continues to work - perfectly. In fact, I've rarely ever had any problems with A/V gear. <knock, knock>

So sorry to hear about your problems Ron.
[.........]

Evan

Thanks for the good words. I would never have bought an RDC-7.1 had I known
what I know now. Sonically it's excellent. The bad news is that in other respects,
it's a disaster.

Ergonomic design is very poor. There is no way to display information on screen,
except for the volume setting (that should really be visible across a room on the
display, not on the screen). You can't see the playing format unless you peer at
the tiny section on the dim display from inches away. You can assign names to
inputs, which appear on the display, but show as 'Video x' on screen and even
that, for some inputs but -- for some inexplicable reason -- not others. Setup
is confusing and limited (why can't I assign a video output to *any* device?)
The manual -- as verbose as it is -- is missing information that takes trial and
error to discover.

QC is the pits. The type of faults indicates that the units are not tested prior
to shipping. i-Link and HDMI interfaces that work with some sources but not
others point to poor electrical design (maybe IR engineers need to brush up on
what 'worst case design' means).

Customer support is a joke. I talked with Jose twice (the wait was an hour to an
hour an a half). What he promised didn't materialize. When I called his line, he
was never there. I left message after message -- he never once returned a call. I
talked with his manager, that completely nullified the promises Jose made to me.
He said Jose will definitely call me back. This never happened. I called Diane, the
warranty service person. She was never available and returned none of my calls
(someone in the know told me that's her normal mode of operation).

As to their service people -- they told me that my RDC-7.1 was working perfectly,
then shipped to me a new one...

Sorry to say, these are all the hallmarks of a Mickey Mouse operation. No self
respecting manufacturer conducts business this way. I can't help but wonder how
long they will survive. Personally, I will never, ever, buy another Integra Research
product. I'll wait and see what they do with my RDC-7.1 (the second one), that I
left at the service center today. If the wait is another 7 weeks like last time,
I may just unload it on ebay, take a (probably) $1K loss and get something that
actually works. To be honest, I'd hate to do it, the unit does sound good.

-- Ron

Thanks for the good words. I would never have bought an RDC-7.1 had I known
what I know now. Sonically it's excellent. The bad news is that in other respects,
it's a disaster.

Ergonomic design is very poor. There is no way to display information on screen,
except for the volume setting (that should really be visible across a room on the
display, not on the screen). You can't see the playing format unless you peer at
the tiny section on the dim display from inches away. You can assign names to
inputs, which appear on the display, but show as 'Video x' on screen and even
that, for some inputs but -- for some inexplicable reason -- not others. Setup
is confusing and limited (why can't I assign a video output to *any* device?)
The manual -- as verbose as it is -- is missing information that takes trial and
error to discover.

QC is the pits. The type of faults indicates that the units are not tested prior
to shipping. i-Link and HDMI interfaces that work with some sources but not
others point to poor electrical design (maybe IR engineers need to brush up on
what 'worst case design' means).

Customer support is a joke. I talked with Jose twice (the wait was an hour to an
hour an a half). What he promised didn't materialize. When I called his line, he
was never there. I left message after message -- he never once returned a call. I
talked with his manager, that completely nullified the promises Jose made to me.
He said Jose will definitely call me back. This never happened. I called Diane, the
warranty service person. She was never available and returned none of my calls
(someone in the know told me that's her normal mode of operation).

As to their service people -- they told me that my RDC-7.1 was working perfectly,
then shipped to me a new one...

Sorry to say, these are all the hallmarks of a Mickey Mouse operation. No self
respecting manufacturer conducts business this way. I can't help but wonder how
long they will survive. Personally, I will never, ever, buy another Integra Research
product. I'll wait and see what they do with my RDC-7.1 (the second one), that I
left at the service center today. If the wait is another 7 weeks like last time,
I may just unload it on ebay, take a (probably) $1K loss and get something that
actually works. To be honest, I'd hate to do it, the unit does sound good.

-- Ron
Seems to be an echo in here.

Hi All,

I need a little advice with interconnects. My current setup is a bit bright sounding (Wooden floor might be the reason) and I'm planning to move my Power amp to underneath the centre speaker which means new XLR interconnects (3 or 4M).

Any recommendations? I will probably replace my QED silver speaker cable and BI-Amp too, any ideas on "Smoother sounding" speaker cable


.....i couldn't tell you how they sound but i ordered all my interconnects from Bluejeans. Reasonably priced & well made & quick to ship. They use high quality Neutrik balanced ends. For speaker cabling i used Canare 4s11 from them as well

She was never available and returned none of my calls
(someone in the know told me that's her normal mode of operation).


No surprise there, it seems that that's the modus operandi for all Integra Research employees. It's a miracle that this company is still in business.

R

Hi All,

I need a little advice with interconnects. My current setup is a bit bright sounding (Wooden floor might be the reason) and I'm planning to move my Power amp to underneath the centre speaker which means new XLR interconnects (3 or 4M).

Any recommendations? I will probably replace my QED silver speaker cable and BI-Amp too, any ideas on "Smoother sounding" speaker cable

Being an engineer, I tend to translate emotional/psychological
responses, such as 'smooth sounding', to physical properties
and discount descriptions that have no correlation to engineering
terms.

As far as speaker cables are concerned, there are only three
electrical properties that can make any difference whatsoever
to sound: resistance, capacitance and inductance.
Interconnects -- especially for low level signals -- add the
issues of distortion (insulation matrial) and susceptibility to
external fields (shielding).

For speaker cables, the lower the resistacnce, the better. It
should be a very small fraction of the speakers impedance. If
driven by a quality amp (meaning, of reasonably high damping
factor; say, 100 and up), capacitance is of small importance
and unless very long (say, less than 20 ft.), inductance isn't
an important factor, either.

So, for speaker cables I use run of the mill low voltage cable.
I calculate thickness (that is, gauge) to provide less than
1/100 the speaker lowest impedance. This usually works out
to 14 AWG (for short cables driving higher impedance speakers)
to 10AWG (longer cables and/or 4 ohm or lower speakers), with
12AWG addressing most systems. Really long spealer cables
(longer than, say, 25 ft.) do require some special
considerations, but these are in the minority of cases.

As to interconnects, while resistance is of no importance,
capacitance certainly is. In addition, insulation material and
construction play a role. Due to the high cost of good
commecrcial interconnects, I prefer the DIY appropach.
I've installed quite a few systems and in all cases where
a comparison was made, DIY ineterconnects sounded
more neutral and transparent than the commercial stuff
(though they didn't come with the fancy packaging :-) ),
at a fraction of the cost.

I use teflon insulated. double shielded solid conductor coax
(better than stranded in a permanent installation and better
consistency). I favour Canare RCA connectors (excellent
construction, rated at 75 ohm to 200MHz) and can be colour
coded. The resulting cables are excellent for base band
audio, digital audio and video and AC3-RF applications.

Consider DIY if you are at all technically inclined.

-- Ron

Being an engineer, I tend to translate emotional/psychological
responses, such as 'smooth sounding', to physical properties
and discount descriptions that have no correlation to engineering
terms.

As far as speaker cables are concerned, there are only three
electrical properties that can make any difference whatsoever
to sound: resistance, capacitance and inductance.
Interconnects -- especially for low level signals -- add the
issues of distortion (insulation matrial) and susceptibility to
external fields (shielding).

For speaker cables, the lower the resistacnce, the better. It
should be a very small fraction of the speakers impedance. If
driven by a quality amp (meaning, of reasonably high damping
factor; say, 100 and up), capacitance is of small importance
and unless very long (say, less than 20 ft.), inductance isn't
an important factor, either.

So, for speaker cables I use run of the mill low voltage cable.
I calculate thickness (that is, gauge) to provide less than
1/100 the speaker lowest impedance. This usually works out
to 14 AWG (for short cables driving higher impedance speakers)
to 10AWG (longer cables and/or 4 ohm or lower speakers), with
12AWG addressing most systems. Really long spealer cables
(longer than, say, 25 ft.) do require some special
considerations, but these are in the minority of cases.

As to interconnects, while resistance is of no importance,
capacitance certainly is. In addition, insulation material and
construction play a role. Due to the high cost of good
commecrcial interconnects, I prefer the DIY appropach.
I've installed quite a few systems and in all cases where
a comparison was made, DIY ineterconnects sounded
more neutral and transparent than the commercial stuff
(though they didn't come with the fancy packaging :-) ),
at a fraction of the cost.

I use teflon insulated. double shielded solid conductor coax
(better than stranded in a permanent installation and better
consistency). I favour Canare RCA connectors (excellent
construction, rated at 75 ohm to 200MHz) and can be colour
coded. The resulting cables are excellent for base band
audio, digital audio and video and AC3-RF applications.

Consider DIY if you are at all technically inclined.
Exotic cable manufacturers would probably pay you to not post things like this. :)

Ron,
You should hit the $20000+ equipment forum - you'll have fun debating lots of the folks who hang out there :)

TM

Thanks for the cable advice. I did think long and hard about Blue Jeans Canare Star quad cable with Neutriks but I think I will go for a good quality loom: http://www.sommercable.com/2__produkte/2__3_multicore/192_2_male_female/male_fem_neut_pega.htm Will this work OK or am I way off the mark?

As for the the Echo, I rather like the design and operation of the Integra. You can assign any input to any source (Including Component or HDMI), you can set a listening mode for each type of input for each source (eg. THX for DTS, Pure for DSD and 7Ch Stereo for PCM 2Ch), re-label all sources and set triggers on any source. The per source customization really is superb. The RS-232 support is very complete and reliable (Unlike Denon and Pioneer). The unit is designed for custom install, it takes a little longer to setup but is more flexible and far easier to use once setup properly. The remote is crap but most people with the kind of budget for the IR use multi remotes anyway.

Thanks for the cable advice. I did think long and hard about Blue Jeans Canare Star quad cable with Neutriks but I think I will go for a good quality loom: Will this work OK or am I way off the mark?

I looked at the site, but there was no spec, so I can't really tell
how good this cable is.

My question is, why go with balanced interconnects at all. The
only advantage is reduction of noise and/or hum, which in a
home environment, with its shorty cables, is a don't care.

As for the the Echo, I rather like the design and operation of the Integra. You can assign any input to any source (Including Component or HDMI), you can set a listening mode for each type of input for each source (eg. THX for DTS, Pure for DSD and 7Ch Stereo for PCM 2Ch)...

I like that, too, not to mention the excellent (to my ears) sonics.
However...

...re-label all sources and set triggers on any source.

The labeling is poorly done. You can see the new labels on
the dim display, but only from up close. The on-screen display
still shows 'Video 1', etc. Hello? Anybody home?

The per source customization really is superb. The RS-232 support is very complete and reliable (Unlike Denon and Pioneer).

Not really. My first unit showed that the update was
successful; then, when re-connected, came up with the
old version again. And again. And again.

IOW, IR's intentions were good, but I have yet to see a unit
where everything worked as advertized. I looked at the
schematics today and the sucker is truly complex. 22 pages
of schematics (size B was legible, but you really need sice C
to work with it), followed by a 54 page parts list...

The unit is designed for custom install, it takes a little longer to setup but is more flexible and far easier to use once setup properly. The remote is crap but most people with the kind of budget for the IR use multi remotes anyway.

I have no problem with the remote. I'll copy it to the Pronto
as soon as I get a round tuit... I can live with the setup
complexity. Like any intelligent machinery, the more powerful
it is, the lower the ease of use. (Compare the ease of use of
an old style typewriter to a modern word processor...) I only
wish their QC wasn't that crummy -- not to mention their so
called Customer support.

Yesterday I got a call from Integra Research, after the service
center informed them of my unit. The guy was positively rude.
Proceeded to give me hell because my second unit was bad
and he wasn't going to replace it for me again, yada yada
yada. I told him, that's fine, just fix it. He thought the delayed
volume problem had to to with varying levels from different
TV channels. After I explained that it wasn't, he pretended to
be incredulous. I mentioned that the same problem had been
discussed on a web forum. His response (get this): "We don't
care about forums, People can write whatever they want, so
they lie". (Some people skills, no?) As to the clicking, he
claimed that's normal (that's a lie -- the schematic shows two
different muting schemes. Why would they put it in there, if
not to silence switching transients?) Bottom line, he stated
that they will not deal with my unit, let the service center fix
it.

This morning I called the service center (nice guy, there.
IR should learn something from him). He said he'll call them
right away, it doesn't make sense for him to spend time on
the unit. Later in the afternoon I was surprised to get another
call from IR. The guy was polite (verging on the respectful,
even), called me 'Sir' three times :-). He said the unit will be
shipped to them and their Engineering will 'take a look' at it.
Phew...

-- Ron

Ron,

Any news?

I just finished reading all 60 pages of this thread as I have potential interest in the RDC 7.1.

Is there a dedicated forum / thread for Integra Research? If not, is this the only forum / thread discussing the RDC 7.1?

Also, has anyone tried the Dolby headphone jack in the RDC7.1? If so, how well does that work?

Thanks
Bruce

Hi Bruce,
I think hometheaterspot may have an IR forum area (as they are broken down by mfr iirc) but it's small and not well traffic'ed if it even exists any more. As for this place, you can also check out the Onkyo TX1000 receiver thread (it shares enough with the IR 7.1 that it should make for interesting reading for you). As for the 7.1, there was a thread prior to this one which got super contentious and was eventually closed by the moderators. Not sure if it's available by search. Anyway, this is probably the largest group of 7.1 owners and prospective owners you can get your mitts on...

BTW I applaud your diligence for reading this whole thread! :)

TM

BTW I applaud your diligence for reading this whole thread! :)

TM

It did take a while!

"BTW I applaud your diligence for reading this whole thread!"

I give you credit for not only reading the whole thing but still considering the purchase of a RDC 7.1 after reading the thread.

I too read this entire thread several months ago and still purchased a RDC 7.1 I really love the unit and have had only one problem (center channel doesnt play on SACD source over firewire).

I was sent a new firewire card by Integra Research very quickly. However, I havent installed it yet and its been a couple months. My unit is a major pain in the butt to pull out so I dread the thought of replacing the card. For now Im using analog for SACD and firewire for everything else.

"BTW I applaud your diligence for reading this whole thread!"

I give you credit for not only reading the whole thing but still considering the purchase of a RDC 7.1 after reading the thread.
I made that observation to myself but as a very happy RDC-7 owner, I thought I'd be piling on if I posted it. :)

...have had only one problem (center channel doesnt play on SACD source over firewire).

I was sent a new firewire card by Integra Research very quickly.

I doubt very much that changing that card will solve your problem. These units have many problems with the center channel. What firmware version do you have?

For all the complaining, some balance: my IR 7.1 has functioned fine since day 1.

TM

For all the complaining, some balance: my IR 7.1 has functioned fine since day 1.

TM
Where do you live and when will you not be home? :)

I doubt very much that changing that card will solve your problem. These units have many problems with the center channel. What firmware version do you have?

1.10 I believe

Me 2.... had a rdc 7.0 first and now the 7.1,, in some ways, I preffered the 7.0, but what the 7.1 can do,, and handle when it comes to formats, videos,,etc,, is everything I need..

Gr8 stuff indeed..

Btw,,JohnnyRose,,, 1.10.... was it allready there,,or do you have the upgrade somewere..??,

Me 2.... had a rdc 7.0 first and now the 7.1,, in some ways, I preffered the 7.0, but what the 7.1 can do,, and handle when it comes to formats, videos,,etc,, is everything I need..

Gr8 stuff indeed..

Btw,,JohnnyRose,,, 1.10.... was it allready there,,or do you have the upgrade somewere..??,

It came with 1.10

OK,, Thanks,....

pity,, now we won't know what they fixed/change with 1.10 compared to previous 1.09.

Anyone that knows.??

Is there a 1.10 upgrade available from dealers?

Any of you hep IR7.1 cats upped to 1.10?...anyone seen the changelog?

A.

Well, I tried calling the distr. for onkyo/integra over here,, according to them,
there is no later fw/sw than 1.09..,, so,, I to am very intrested in any new updates if they are available,, and if so,, what the "do"..

1.10 is confirmed as released but they have not released an update. The version could be an update to support new flash part and hence unecessary to existing users but I suspect there have been bug fixes and improvements too.

For all the complaining, some balance: my IR 7.1 has functioned fine since day 1.

TM

You and I must be the only ones on the planet :)

Mine also has worked perfectly from day one. I even really like the Net-Tune module for streaming music from my PC.

ArtV

1.10 is confirmed as released but they have not released an update. The version could be an update to support new flash part and hence unecessary to existing users but I suspect there have been bug fixes and improvements too.

...gotcha...be interesting to see if it cures some of the bugginess others have experienced.

Mine also has worked perfectly from day one. I even really like the Net-Tune module for streaming music from my PC.

ArtV

...mine as well, we're up to 4 fully functional units so far ;) .

I have to say that to most extent,, my unit is also working as it should,
Beeing a previous rdc7.0 user,, I do have some things I don't like and/or miss,
but,, nothing major that's not working.

But,, Integra's "talk" regarding upgrades, modularity etc,, ,, well, that doesn't sound true anymore..

I'd really like to see cards made available, I'd like to see FW/SW updates made publicly available. Right now Im having some of the vibes from my 7.0 experience ...

For those of you speculating about IR as a "company"...in the U.S. Onkyo, Integra and IR are the various brands that Onkyo USA distributes as you know. Behind the doors, Onkyo and Integra/IR share many backoffice functions such as the accounting, order processing, support, etc. There are separate marketing teams, along with product planning. Integra and Integra Research are handled as a single entity, but have different dealer franchises. So a dealer must be apply separately to be an Integra and/or IR dealer.

Also, with respect to forthcoming modules for the card-based product (yes, the modules are all the same across the three product lines, but the Onkyo version is not "Build-to-Order", it's a fixed configuration as shipped):

The following three modules are expected in the Summer-early Fall timeframe:

HDMI 1.2 card (don't know how many ports)
AM/FM/XM tuner card
AM/FM/HD Radio tuner card

For the tuner card you must remove your existing AM/FM tuner card and replace it with the new one.

I don't know what other card(s) may be on the way, but I have heard of a couple of others that they are considering.

They are also still working on the Windows configuration application which was sent back to Japan due to "inadequacies." (read Buggy) They are also supposed to offer firmware upgradability over the Net-Tune ethernet connection as well.

Integra will be shipping the kewl new Integra Integrated Media Center (a Windows Media Center 2005-based HTPC with the Intel VIIV platform for about $4k) in the March-April timeframe. This was shown at the Intel and Dolby booths at CES.

Onkyo/Integra/IR do not have booths at CES. CEDIA Expo only (Integra/IR)

Eric


Any updates on the new HDMI module?

thx.

marty

I'm hoping someone in this thread do me a favour. If you set your surround back speakers to Bi-Amp, do you get any sound out the surround back balanced preouts? I think the bi-amp option is broken on my unit, or more like broken on V1.09.

If you set your surround back speakers to Bi-Amp, do you get any sound out the surround back balanced preouts?

I tried it and I don't get any sound out the back surrounds either.

R

Raz,
You mean your 5th (6th?) one works for the most part?
TM

Raz,
You mean your 5th (6th?) one works for the most part?
TM

This one is the 3rd unit, the 4th was DOA and the 5th sounded horrible so I got the 3rd one back, the 3rd unit was/is the most stable of the 5 I tried.

R

I'm thinking about trading in my 5 year old Lexicon MC-12B for the RDC 7.1. I like the idea of it being card based and easily upgraded, HDMI 1.3 for example. I'm not too familiar with IR as a company. How's the audio & sound quality? Any insight will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

I'm thinking about trading in my 5 year old Lexicon MC-12B for the RDC 7.1. I like the idea of it being card based and easily upgraded, HDMI 1.3 for example. I'm not too familiar with IR as a company. How's the audio & sound quality? Any insight will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Raz? TM?

Waboman,

I am sure you will hear other opinions but I have had NO problems with mine. It sounds and operates wonderfully. To be honest though with the new yet to be released surround modes and the announcement of HDMI version 1.3, sinking money into a new processor right now may not be the best idea. Sure the IR upgradeability sounds great but until they actually announce or better yet start upgrading it, you may want to wait.

ArtV

I like the idea of it being card based and easily upgraded, HDMI 1.3 for example. I'm not too familiar with IR as a company. How's the audio & sound quality? Any insight will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

1. The RDC-7.1 was released in November 2004. IR hasn't released any new cards since then, that's 19 months and zero upgrades. An HDMI 1.3 card might never happen.

2. About the company: customer support is horrible and quality control is very poor.

3. I've had 4 working RDC-7.1, a fifth unit was DOA. Sound wise the 1st RDC-7.1 was bright, the 2nd and 3rd warm, the 4th extremely bright.

R

Waboman,

I am sure you will hear other opinions but I have had NO problems with mine. It sounds and operates wonderfully. To be honest though with the new yet to be released surround modes and the announcement of HDMI version 1.3, sinking money into a new processor right now may not be the best idea. Sure the IR upgradeability sounds great but until they actually announce or better yet start upgrading it, you may want to wait.

ArtV

Art,

I've thought about that too. However, my Lex is losing value and the RDC 7.1 seems like the best solution as of now. It's a tough decision for me.

1. The RDC-7.1 was released in November 2004.
R

Raz,

I'm hoping in the 2 years since it's introduction IR has worked out the bugs. I read somewhere, in this thread maybe, that the 7.1 is on software version 1.09? I'm not 100% on that. Or exactly what it fixed. Again, I'm relatively new to the IR family.

Raz,

I'm hoping in the 2 years since it's introduction IR has worked out the bugs. I read somewhere, in this thread maybe, that the 7.1 is on software version 1.09? I'm not 100% on that. Or exactly what it fixed. Again, I'm relatively new to the IR family.

Do you already own an RDC 7.1?

Do you already own an RDC 7.1?

Not yet. But seriously considering it. Currently, I have the MC-12B.

Not yet. But seriously considering it. Currently, I have the MC-12B.

If you have concerns about the stability of the RDC 7.1, or its support, why not look elsewhere? No offense, but it seems like you are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole here...

If you have concerns about the stability of the RDC 7.1, or its support, why not look elsewhere? No offense, but it seems like you are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole here...


As I mentioned earlier, I'm tryng to learn more about the RDC 7.1. Do you own one? If so, are you happy? Just trying to put a square peg IN a square peg.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm tryng to learn more about the RDC 7.1. Do you own one? If so, are you happy? Just trying to put a square peg IN a square peg.

I dont have one I own an anthem D2, prior to that I had a D1. I have been very happy with both since i got them, they are solid as a rock and the tech support is top notch. I havent had any problems that would have tested the customer service but i hear its also fantastic.

I got the impression you were further down the road in the decision making process with this unit so apologies if i was mistaken.

Waboman,

If you feel the Lex is losing value, sell it and get a mid range receiver for now. There is a good chance that anything you get now will be outdated in a year or two. We all have hopes that IR will come through with an HDMI 1.3 update and upgrades for the new processing modes but who knows.

As far as the D1/D2 goes, that seems like a great processor. I and others, however, do not need a scaler. Further, I believe it is running a DSP that is several generations old. I think though that there are two of them and that they are upgradeable. Anthem has been good in providing upgrades though they did fail to provide firewire.

In any event, I had an Anthem AVM 20 and it smoked and died within 60 days of buying it. Anthem did fix it but it took about 3 months. Apart from that it was great. I have had no problems with the IR unit.

Raz has had quite a history with both Anthem and IR.

ArtV

As far as the DSP on the D2 goes,IIRC the reason that Anthem chose to go with the Dual Motorola DSPs was because they offer a high precision mode which may or may not be available in other DSPs. The DSPs support all of the available formats today with very good results.

If there is any concern for the DSPs it would really only be in regards to future formats. If youre looking at the D1/D2 though, Anthem would need to upgrade to HDMI 1.3 before the DSPs even need to worry about dealing with those formats natively. If a 1.3 upgrade became available and a DSP upgrade was necessery i'm sure they would do it at that time.

You could always look at a an AVM unit without the video processing but WITH the HDMI switching. The MSRP is quite a bit less on tehse units and may be a good bang/buck solution if you already have an amp.


Raz, i can't recall the issue you had with the D1. Was it that early software bug with the "FU" in the display or was it more than that?

"If there is any concern for the DSPs it would really only be in regards to future formats. If you're looking at the D1/D2 though, Anthem would need to upgrade to HDMI 1.3 before the DSPs even need to worry about dealing with those formats natively. If a 1.3 upgrade became available and a DSP upgrade was necessary i'm sure they would do it at that time."

That was my point. Now may not be the best time to buy anything this expensive.......unless of course money is no problem. If money is no problem then who am I to give you advise?

ArtV

The Motorola chip in the D2 is downright antiquated at this point, The Texas Instrument chips in the 7.1 are many times more powerful. But the real issue isn't just its processing power. Motorola long ago abandoned support for its chip and is no longer writing updates for it. The same is not true for the TI chip. This is not merely an issue for the new codecs, but also for possible future options such as room equalization. Also, if you read the new thread on the D2 (OK, got my D2 now it's my turn to talk), you will see that they are failing at a rather alarming rate (thermal issues?).

The 7.1 has also had substantial issues with several different owners. And the company has not been stellar in its support, so get it from a good dealer. However, I believe your theory has some merit, and that they may have finally ironed out the issues at this point. In fact, it's probably a pretty safe bet. The first unit I had worked perfectly but I changed it out because of an incompatibility issue with HDMI card. The second unit I received did have some issues. This time it took the company four months to send me a new unit, but the good news is that the new unit works perfectly. Sonically the unit is simply incredible. I continue to be amazed using i-link with SACD/DVD-AUDIO. simply outstanding!

The real question is whether or not Onkyo/ Integra/ Intera Research (same corporation) will carry through with the original plan and provide updated cards to carry these 4 units through the next phase of technological advancement. It is my understanding that several cards have been developed and are about to be released. The modules are user upgradable and contain the upgraded firmware inside them. they're really easy to install (I've done this myself). If the company actually delivers it will make this the most outstanding processor on the market in terms of upgradability/sound and the value. If not, there will be a lot of angry people and the company will do serious harm to its reputation. We will soon see.

Evan

P.S.
I was using an older version of the IR 7 that the dealer was kind enough to lend me for four months while I was waiting for my new 7.1. I was quite surprised to notice what a significant difference there was in sound quality when I received my 7.1 again. It really is a much better processor than its predecessor.

The Motorola chip in the D2 is downright antiquated at this point, The Texas Instrument chips in the 7.1 are many times more powerful.

Many times more powerful isnt really necessary though, it just needs to be 'powerful enough' with good audio quality. Anthem could have chosen a single chip solution back when the D1 was released, but chose to go with dual Motorolas, that should tell you something because a single chip solution would have probably been cheaper. Again I'm not positive but I believe it was because the Motorolas can run in 48 bit precision mode.

But the real issue isn't just its processing power. Motorola long ago abandoned support for its chip and is no longer writing updates for it. The same is not true for the TI chip. This is not merely an issue for the new codecs, but also for possible future options such as room equalization. Also, if you read the new thread on the D2 (OK, got my D2 now it's my turn to talk), you will see that they are failing at a rather alarming rate (thermal issues?).


Anthem writes all its own software so this isnt a problem for them.

That was my point. Now may not be the best time to buy anything this expensive.......unless of course money is no problem. If money is no problem then who am I to give you advise?

ArtV

:D

Well for the record, money is a concern for me. :)

I just wonder if HDMI 1.3 will add a lot of value for home theater for a few years. For the new players they will convert the new audio formats to PCM and send over HDMI 1.1. In the meantime i'm not sure if 1.3 should keep someone from getting the best out there now. But as you said each has to make that decision on their own...

I was using an older version of the IR 7 that the dealer was kind enough to lend me for four months while I was waiting for my new 7.1. I was quite surprised to notice what a significant difference there was in sound quality when I received my 7.1 again. It really is a much better processor than its predecessor.

I agree, sound wise the RDC-7.1 is way better than the old RDC-7. The RDC-7 was way more reliable though.

As far as RDC-7.1 vs D2 goes, I prefer the RDC-7.1 sound, Anthem easily wins the customer support battle while QC is equally poor for both products.

R

My thought regarding HDMI 1.3 is that if you are not going to allow the processor to do the processing, get a receiver with true analog pass through and let your HD-DVD/Blue Ray do the processing and pass the signal via the analog cables. The D2/D1 by the way only has 5.1 inputs.

ArtV

My thought regarding HDMI 1.3 is that if you are not going to allow the processor to do the processing, get a receiver with true analog pass through and let your HD-DVD/Blue Ray do the processing and pass the signal via the analog cables. The D2/D1 by the way only has 5.1 inputs.

ArtV

Ok we'll just agree to disagree there. I'd much rather have the player convert the digital True HD/DTS HD signal to digital PCM in the player (which is what the Toshiba HD-DVD player is doing) and pass it over HDMI 1.1 -- digitally. Higher end processors and receivers are likely to have MUCH better bass management, time alignment, EQ, and DACs than youre going to find in any HD/BR player. Not to mention any post - processing like THX or Room Eq.

Since the output of a Dolby TrueHD and lossless DTS-HD signal is LPCM anyway youre hardly doing anything to the digital signal.

This is similar to what universal SACD/DVD-A players did with SACD signals. Internally they converted them to PCM because you cant apply BM or TA to the native SACD signal.

With your proposed solution if you want to do any processing or signal manipulation the player itself doesnt provide, youre adding an additional A/D - D/A conversion in the chain, imo - not good.

Clearly an HDMI 1.3 player and receiver is the theoretical optimal solution (i say theoretical because i dont know if anyone would be able to hear the difference). In the absence of that, HDMI 1.1, to me, is far preferable than the analog outs of the player.

I cannot see any of us with the quality of equipment we are discussing buying an APEX player. As a matter of fact, I believe my Denon 3910 DVD player has better DACS then the D2 and I would be suprised if the next generation of DACS aren't superior as well.

My point is that in a year or two he can get one that does ALL of the processing in the prepro.

I guess we will just agree to disagree.

ArtV

I cannot see any of us with the quality of equipment we are discussing buying an APEX player. As a matter of fact, I believe my Denon 3910 DVD player has better DACS then the D2 and I would be suprised if the next generation of DACS aren't superior as well.

ArtV

Well if you want to distill the decision down to the specs of DACs, thats ok and certainly one way to come to a conclusion.

However, I think youre going to be doing your system a disservice to ignore the rest of the points i made in my last post, most of which were far more pertinent than the specs of the DACs. Its my fault for posing DACs as a bullet point when its really more about the entire, high quality, digital path in a high end processor
relative to a stand alone optical disc player.

In theory, the additional A/D - D/A conversion would be much more impactful than the difference between the DACS in your 7.1 or a Denon HD player. I would put flexibility of configuration options with BA and TA second on the list, and depending on the optical player, first.

My point is that in a year or two he can get one that does ALL of the processing in the prepro.

I guess we will just agree to disagree.

ArtV
Sure i understand that but ive seen people holding out with their old gear (without plain ol' DTS for the love of Pete!) for over year for the D2 to come along instead of buying a D1 or an RDC 7.1. In the meantime, many of us have been enjoying top-notch audio.

This industry will always give you the option to wait a year or two for 'the next thing'. Sometimes you have to just cut bait, buy something, and enjoy it. Whatever decision is made, if youre ready to buy, i would say buy something now and worry about upgrading when your gear REALLY cant do something you need or want, otherwise you spend more time waiting than enjoying great home theater.

imo. :)

EDIT: FWIW, aside from the arguably imperceptible pcm conversion, ALL the processing is done on an HDMI 1.1 equipped pre/pro.

[QUOTE=Expletive]
Anthem writes all its own software so this isnt a problem for them.






It is my understanding that with the exception of Lexicon and Meridian, nobody actually writes original firmware for the DSP chips. The rest of the manufacturers use the programming that was written by the producers of the chip. A small boutique company like Anthem does not have the resources to do the extensive R/D an original programming required, so I believe they are using the firmware to decode the codecs that was written for it by Motorola, which no longer writes upgraded firmware for this product.

Theoretically, the enormous resources of a giant corporation such as an Onkyo/Intgra/Integra Research or another conglomerate like the Harman Group (Lexicon/Mark Levison/JBL/Infinty/Harman Kardon ETC..) give them a leg up in terms of having the financial wherewithal to keep their components technologically ahead of the rest of the pack. What we are all waiting to see is if this will actually be utilized in the next several months with their units. I'm actually quite optimistic, but then again I just went on a new antidepressant :)

Evan

I think your missing the point. His concern was the declining value of his Lex. I suggested that he sell his Lex and get a decent receiver with a true analog pass through to hold him over until things settle down.

My 3910 does time alignment, base management, etc, I don't see why the next generation stuff won't as well. You only need the A/D - D/A step if you process the signal. Analog passthrough doesn't apply the conversion. I do agree that this step should be avoided.

This is A LOT of money to spend. I know that with this stuff you can always wait for something better but it looks like we are about to get some true advancements in home theater and the products that should be coming out in a year or two will be best able to handle them.

ArtV

You are right Art, purchasing right now is a risky proposition. It is safer to go with a temporary solution. I only mean to point out that the IR 7.1 has the greatest chance of truly being fully upgradable to the next revolution that is about to occur (HDMI 1.3/internal processing and decoding of the new codecs). But then again, it might not actually happen.

Evan

You're preaching to the choir Evanfew.

I got a new job in December of 04 at which point my wife no longer had to work. Unfortunately I didn't make quite as much money as my wife and I had together. My wife approved a new processor and amp purchase but said that I couldn't get another one for 10 years. I didn't think I could swing the $5K for the D1 and then spend another $1,700 to upgrade it after being told that I couldn't get another processor (on a side note I think the upgrade is still pending, waiting would have killed me). The 7.1 looked like the best bet to be future-compatible with firewire the TI DSP and the card based design. I figured I could always fall back on the multiple 7.1 analog inputs if needed.

So far I have been VERY happy with my purchase though I am sure I would have been happy with the D1 as well. I just would be in the process of begging my wife for a purchase order to upgrade it. Heck I even really enjoy the Net-tune card for streaming audio from my PC though I never understood the appeal of internet radio.

As long as they come through with an HDMI 1.3 card with more than three inputs I will be happy. I think it is smart to delay the card for 1.3 compliance, I just hope that is what they are doing.

If they REALLY wanted to make me happy, I would LOVE a subwoofer EQ card. I would rather have the subwoofer done right than mess with the whole room EQ. I am not sold on the idea of room EQ at this time.

ArtV

PS. Wouldn't you think that the AVS Forum's spell check would know the word subwoofer?

Here is a timely quote from TWICE that I pulled from another thread:

HDMI 1.1 is capable of transporting all HD DVD and Blu-ray audio formats in native form except for losslessly compressed DTS HD Master and Dolby True HD, whose 768kHz “frame rates” exceed HDMI's 192kHz frame-rate capability, the HDMI licensing organization previously told TWICE.

I wonder if this is correct?

Here is a timely quote from TWICE that I pulled from another thread:

HDMI 1.1 is capable of transporting all HD DVD and Blu-ray audio formats in native form except for losslessly compressed DTS HD Master and Dolby True HD, whose 768kHz “frame rates” exceed HDMI's 192kHz frame-rate capability, the HDMI licensing organization previously told TWICE.

I wonder if this is correct?

I don't believe HDMI 1.1 can transport Dolby Digital+ either.

It's almost a moot point however, since all current HD-DVD discs *require* that decoding be done in the player and the only ways to get the sound out are (1) PCM over HDMI, (2) analog, and (3) re-encoding as DTS over s/pdif.

--
Steve

Art,

I'm sorry to say I am in a similar situation to you my friend. I absolutely destroyed myself financially to put together a new system from scratch (speakers, amp, DLP, SP1000 DVD and the 7.1. Although I knew it was a risky purchase, I figured the 7.1 had the only real fighting chance of being a long-term investment because of its card cage design, and the beast of a large corporation behind it. I really, really need this processor to boldly grow into the future as a long-term investment. I will probably require additional medication, Yoga and therapy to assist me in what may be a truly disappointing outcome. May the Force be with us!

Evan

What's truly frightening is that I'm now spending way too much time reading the front projector $3500.00+ posts. I may require an intervention and inpatient program to free me from the addiction that is this forum.

I absolutely destroyed myself financially to put together a new system from scratch (speakers, amp, DLP, SP1000 DVD and the 7.1.

So did I: changed my system from the Anthem D1, Parasound amps, B&W speakers, to the IR RDC-7.1, IR RDA-7.1 amp, and Klipsch speakers.

I hope that IR will come out with a 4X1 HDMI 1.3 card but from my experience in dealing with this company the chance is very small, 15% at best I would say.

R

A small boutique company like Anthem does not have the resources to do the extensive R/D an original programming required, so I believe they are using the firmware to decode the codecs that was written for it by Motorola, which no longer writes upgraded firmware for this product.


No. Expletive is right. Anthem writes all its own software so this isn't a problem for them. Anthem is now part of the Paradigm group. Not a "small boutique" company anymore... They are even modifying and re-programming the Gennum stock drivers btw. :D

Also, some of the programmers on the Athena project are now on board with Anthem (room-eq... :D )...

Those guys are more then able to program everything they want...

Check out my IR light stand:

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/mrv/integra%20sign.jpg

First off I'd like to say a big muchas gracias for everyones helpful insight. I'm sitting at about 80% for the RDC 7.1. I talked to my salesman, who deals with both Lex and IR. He speaks very highly of the RDC 7.1. He's also confident about IR releasing a HDMI 1.3 card. My plan is to unload the Lex before it's a total boat anchor and pay little if nothing for a fully loaded RDC 7.1. Anyway, that's my plan. We'll see how well it works out... :D

It is my understanding that with the exception of Lexicon and Meridian, nobody actually writes original firmware for the DSP chips. The rest of the manufacturers use the programming that was written by the producers of the chip. A small boutique company like Anthem does not have the resources to do the extensive R/D an original programming required, so I believe they are using the firmware to decode the codecs that was written for it by Motorola, which no longer writes upgraded firmware for this product.

Ah Levesque beat me to it, but yeah Anthem has quite a stable of talent now.

I only mean to point out that the IR 7.1 has the greatest chance of truly being fully upgradable to the next revolution that is about to occur (HDMI 1.3/internal processing and decoding of the new codecs).

Well i think you have to define 'being fully upgradeable'. With the D1 to D2 uprgade that Anthem is offering, i think they have proven to a greater degree their commitment to the product. Anthem is looking hard at room eq technologies so i have no doubt that some sort of upgrade would be coming down the line for that as well as HDMI 1.3 when the time is right.

Here is a timely quote from TWICE that I pulled from another thread:

HDMI 1.1 is capable of transporting all HD DVD and Blu-ray audio formats in native form except for losslessly compressed DTS HD Master and Dolby True HD, whose 768kHz “frame rates” exceed HDMI's 192kHz frame-rate capability, the HDMI licensing organization previously told TWICE.

I wonder if this is correct?


Possibly, but HD-DVD and BR but only allow 7.1 of 24/96 DTS HD and True HD audio within their spec, IIRC.

I think your missing the point. His concern was the declining value of his Lex. I suggested that he sell his Lex and get a decent receiver with a true analog pass through to hold him over until things settle down.

My 3910 does time alignment, base management, etc, I don't see why the next generation stuff won't as well. You only need the A/D - D/A step if you process the signal. Analog passthrough doesn't apply the conversion. I do agree that this step should be avoided.

This is A LOT of money to spend. I know that with this stuff you can always wait for something better but it looks like we are about to get some true advancements in home theater and the products that should be coming out in a year or two will be best able to handle them.

ArtV

I understand i think I may have gotten a little OT. ;)

My point being that you can always 'wait it out'. When HDCP was on the horizon i would have agreed that holding out for that is wise. However, at this point i dont think it would be too risky to buy a processor because the lost functionality with HDMI 1.3 isnt that big at all IMO.

In the meantime youre using something substandard for 1 or 2 years (and substandard is a relative term, but if youre looking at $5k processors, a receiver falls into that group for you) while you're waiting. Life is short, buy something now and enjoy it. Worry about the upgrade consequences later. These things always take longer than we anticipate, you never know how long you could be waiting! :)

(FWIW, I had a 3910 before my current 59avi and compared to the D1 in DD/DTS and CD music decoding/processing, to my ears, the D1 was clearly superior in all regards (maybe the upsampler had something to do with it?). Thats not to say the 3910 isnt very good, but imo if your $1k DVD player outperforms a $6k processor in this regard, someting is probably configured wrong. I do use some of the THX stuff, DPL 2 on movies and a little on music so I would need to get an analog signal back in the digital domain.)

I use my 3910 and firewire and find it superior as well to the processing of the 3910. I don't think the AVM20 did a better job than the 3910 though. This has to be one of the biggest advances in home theater, at least since AC-3 and I think buying ANYTHING now is a gamble. As far as substandard goes, a decent receiver probably sounds excellent. I am trying to give him advise for the long haul. For this kind of money I advise getting a decent receiver and waiting until the dust settles.

ArtV

No. Expletive is right. Anthem writes all its own software so this isn't a problem for them. Anthem is now part of the Paradigm group. Not a "small boutique" company anymore...





I'm not talking about software. I'm talking about the ability to actually write programming code for the chip itself.

Anthem/Paradigm cannot realistically be considered to be in the same league as international behemoth conglomerates like Onkyo, Denon, Harman ETC... as far as international sales figures, human resources or financial strength. Not even in the same ballpark. This is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact in some ways its a great thing (customer service), but it's inaccurate to insinuate they have similar resources.

Gentlemen, it is perhaps not appropriate for you to continue your PR campaign to promote Anthem products in this thread. This is for individuals who currently own, have owned, or plan to purchase a Integra Research 7.1. I think if you follow this thread you will also see that those of us who use these products strive to be ruthlessly honest about the good, the bad and the ugly. We are not cheerleaders. Our purpose is to assist our fellow forum members with the truth.

Evan

Gentlemen, it is perhaps not appropriate for you to continue your PR campaign to promote Anthem products in this thread. This is for individuals who currently own, have owned, or plan to purchase a Integra Research 7.1.
Hey! Don't forget about us RDC-7 owners! :)

FOr the guy who asked, I love my 7.1 in that it works the way it should (for me), HDCP over HDMI handshake issues notwithstanding (I blame source component mfrs for these problems).

THat said, I'd love it more if they came out with a 4x1 HDMI 1.3 card :)

TM

My humble apologies Pepar! ;) The title of the thread even says Integra Research RDC-7 (and thank you TM for starting it).

Evanfew, we can not possibly be more in agreement. I can see where the thread was headed...........

ArtV

I'm not talking about software. I'm talking about the ability to actually write programming code for the chip itself.

Anthem/Paradigm cannot realistically be considered to be in the same league as international behemoth conglomerates like Onkyo, Denon, Harman ETC... as far as international sales figures, human resources or financial strength. Not even in the same ballpark. This is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact in some ways its a great thing (customer service), but it's inaccurate to insinuate they have similar resources.

Anthem writes and improves upon actual processing algorithms, not just UI software.

No one insinuated anything about their resources relative to the companies you mentioned, only that they are not a small boutique shop unable to support the motorola chip. Its important to keep in mind that, in this industry, it has been proven time and again that more money doesnt always equal better performance or better quality. Let the product speak for itself and judge from there.

Gentlemen, it is perhaps not appropriate for you to continue your PR campaign to promote Anthem products in this thread. This is for individuals who currently own, have owned, or plan to purchase a Integra Research 7.1. I think if you follow this thread you will also see that those of us who use these products strive to be ruthlessly honest about the good, the bad and the ugly. We are not cheerleaders. Our purpose is to assist our fellow forum members with the truth.

Evan

Neither myself, nor Levesque has offered up anything but the truth supported by facts.

Your inital commentary on potential issues with the Motorola chip deserved,imo, correcting as to why it was chosen and Anthem's ability to support it. For those reading the thread wanting to make an educated decision, they would have been making it with incorrect data. I'm sure you could appreciate that in the pursuit of the truth.

If you read back, the D1 only came up because Wabo asked about what i owned, once i mentioned the D1 you and Art voiced your concerns on the motorola chip which i (and later levesque) then corrected.

The tangent that Art and I went on eventually was not intrinsic to Anthem, it was about buying HDMI 1.1 today or waiting for HDMI 1.3 in the future. We tossed around a few ideas on why someone would or wouldnt want to wait. This is pertinent to someone considering a 7.1, a D1/D2, or any processor at this point. We're on opposite sides of the fence here but hey thats what the forum is about.

So did I: changed my system from the Anthem D1, Parasound amps, B&W speakers, to the IR RDC-7.1, IR RDA-7.1 amp, and Klipsch speakers.

I hope that IR will come out with a 4X1 HDMI 1.3 card but from my experience in dealing with this company the chance is very small, 15% at best I would say.

R

I think upgrades are likely. We have just had our first new module in Europe, A DAB radio card and the same people who told me it would be released in June back in Feb said Autumn for an HDMI upgrade.

BTW: I have confirmation the DAB card will work with the RDC-7.1 and will get the upgrade in thee next couple of weeks. (Unfortunately Onkyo UK insists on fitting the card themselves)

the same people who told me it would be released in June back in Feb said Autumn for an HDMI upgrade.

Yes, but it seems that it will be a 2x1 HDMI 1.2 card. I don't care about HDMI 1.2.

R

Expletive,

I read back just trying to see how you and I got talking about the D1/D2 in an RDC 7.1 thread. Your first post was asking if he had already purchased an RDC 7.1, your second post was suggesting he look elsewhere and your third (after being asked if you own an RDC 7.1 about which he was asking) was to tell him how happy you are with your current D2 and previous D1.

ArtV

Expletive,

I read back just trying to see how you and I got talking about the D1/D2 in an RDC 7.1 thread. Your first post was asking if he had already purchased an RDC 7.1, your second post was suggesting he look elsewhere and your third (after being asked if you own an RDC 7.1 about which he was asking) was to tell him how happy you are with your current D2 and previous D1.

ArtV


I would actually characterize that series of events as the way Wabo and I got to talking about the D1/D2. The reason why I even asked was because he said this:
Raz,

I'm hoping in the 2 years since it's introduction IR has worked out the bugs. I read somewhere, in this thread maybe, that the 7.1 is on software version 1.09? I'm not 100% on that. Or exactly what it fixed. Again, I'm relatively new to the IR family.

Which, to me, seemed like an odd conclusion to come to. When Wabo responded by asking me if i owned a 7.1, i assumed when i told him what I did own he would be interested to know if i was happy with it (since he was in the decision making process).

I think the way you and I got to talking about the D1/D2 was in response to this post:

Waboman,

As far as the D1/D2 goes, that seems like a great processor. I and others, however, do not need a scaler. Further, I believe it is running a DSP that is several generations old. I think though that there are two of them and that they are upgradeable. Anthem has been good in providing upgrades though they did fail to provide firewire.

ArtV

Which was a totally fair comment. All I had wanted to point out was that the dual motorolas were being used for their sound quality and double precision mode. So while maybe a little long in the tooth, the end result may not be consequently substandard today since they were used in a way that provided forward-looking performance.

This also lead to my response to Evan's comment:

The Motorola chip in the D2 is downright antiquated at this point, The Texas Instrument chips in the 7.1 are many times more powerful. But the real issue isn't just its processing power. Motorola long ago abandoned support for its chip and is no longer writing updates for it.

And it went from there. I only intended to respond to posts where i thought there may be some confusion on the facts, not hijack the thread. I'm happy to just drop any and all anthem fact-checking talk as it seems its upsetting a few people.

Expletive,

The following is taken from a post from a great thread that ran over a year and a half ago: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=484985&page=1&pp=30&highlight=dsp (www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=484985&page=1&pp=30&highlight=dsp)

Quote:
Originally posted by goldear
MCode..could you please elaborate a litte more on this statement:

"This is precisely why the escoteric brands that stayed with Motorola like B&K, Parasound, Sunfire.. are now facing a very challenging dilemma....."

I realize that Freescale has acquired Motorola, but have they decided to take the company in a different direction, abandoning their DSP division? I noticed you mentioned Pioneer bringing everything "in-house" to write their own software; isn't this something these other brands could do since most are using the services of Flextronics anyhow? Does this pose a problem for these brands using the Motorola platform...and their prospects for future DSP upgrades? Thanks

reply:
Very simple..
Motorola does not have in place the software support system to provide design assistance to the audio brands.. Since there are many new developments for audio algorithims, the DSP supplier needs to be able to deliver certified software code as quickly as possible. Having only a powerful DSP without a continuous support software/applications group, any brand will have great difficulty. And the smaller the brand and its lower respective market share typically the less in-house software expertise they employ..
Simple economics.. (end quote)






If you know for a fact that Anthem has the ability to provide new code for this chip, and that the inherent hardware limitations of this chip can be overcome to support the new codecs, then I stand corrected! I really hope for all Anthem owners that this is the case. I don't however have high hopes. In fact, to be honest I'm not sure that I would personally bet a lot of money that even a much bigger company like Onkyo/IR will pull this off with a vastly more powerful chip, that still is being supported by its manufacturer (Texas instruments). I really do hope we all get lucky.


now, back on-topic to Integra Research...

If you know for a fact that Anthem has the ability to provide new code for this chip, and that the inherent hardware limitations of this chip can be overcome to support the new codecs, then I stand corrected! I really hope for all Anthem owners that this is the case. I don't however have high hopes. In fact, to be honest I'm not sure that I would personally bet a lot of money that even a much bigger company like Onkyo/IR will pull this off with a vastly more powerful chip, that still is being supported by its manufacturer (Texas instruments). I really do hope we all get lucky.

now, back on-topic to Integra Research...

I wouldnt have said it if i didnt know it, and i dont deny that this could pose an issue for some companies. Anthem has already re-written some, if not all, of the algorithms for the existing formats. A search of the forum or an email to Nick would clear it all up if youre at all interested. Levesque is an even better position to make such a claim but i'll leave it up to him to explain why. ;)

If you look at my earlier post I did, in fact, state that the only concern was for future formats, which I adressed 2 pages ago.

If there is any concern for the DSPs it would really only be in regards to future formats. If youre looking at the D1/D2 though, Anthem would need to upgrade to HDMI 1.3 before the DSPs even need to worry about dealing with those formats natively. If a 1.3 upgrade became available and a DSP upgrade was necessary, i'm sure they would do it at that time.


But yes, on with the integra discussion!

If you know for a fact that Anthem has the ability to provide new code for this chip, and that the inherent hardware limitations of this chip can be overcome to support the new codecs, then I stand corrected! I really hope for all Anthem owners that this is the case. I don't however have high hopes. In fact, to be honest I'm not sure that I would personally bet a lot of money that even a much bigger company like Onkyo/IR will pull this off with a vastly more powerful chip, that still is being supported by its manufacturer (Texas instruments). I really do hope we all get lucky.

In my experience, it's just as likely that a big company will view itself as an integrator rather than a developer and do much *less* custom development. They'll have huge beurocratic and process impediments which more than offset their extra manpower and financial resources. Big companies would rather use their power to muscle other companies into doing the real work. If the project fails then they can blame it on the supplier and the executives at the big company aren't as likely to get fired.

Small companies have no one to tell them that it can't be done and are more likely to take big risks like rewriting core DSP code :) When it comes to software, it's not unusual at all to find a very small team (or even a single developer) that outperforms a huge development team at a big corporation.

--
Steve

Expletive:

I postponed my purchase of a processor for almost an entire year based on the many e-mails that Nick put out on Anthem's behalf, repeatedly stating they were going to offer an upgrade of i-link in three months, and then another three months, and then another three months etc.. A year and a half later the upgrade finally came out and the promised feature was never included. I felt mighty duped. Although I appreciate that they had to make some difficult financial decisions, they still did not deliver as promised. So I have little interest in any further declarations from this company, I'll believe it when I see it. Though I still wish them luck in this next endeavor that you believe they will succeed in (I do hope they pull it off). If it makes you feel any better, I probably have even less faith in Onkyo/IR taking care of their customers needs or their promise of being like Nostradamus!


Kanefsky:

You may very well be right. We will all be watching closely with vested interest to see how this IR soap opera plays out with this particular brand.

Evan

Expletive:

I postponed my purchase of a processor for almost an entire year based on the many e-mails that Nick put out on Anthem's behalf, repeatedly stating they were going to offer an upgrade of i-link in three months, and then another three months, and then another three months etc.. A year and a half later the upgrade finally came out and the promised feature was never included. I felt mighty duped. Although I appreciate that they had to make some difficult financial decisions, they still did not deliver as promised.

Agreed. I was equally pissed off by the decision even though i understand why they made it. If it would have added another $200 to the upgrade i dont even know that I would have wanted to pay for it but i'm on your side that they shouldnt have gone as far as to put "1394 upgrade" on the back panel if they werent sure they were going to provide it.

So I have little interest in any further declarations from this company, I'll believe it when I see it. Though I still wish them luck in this next endeavor that you believe they will succeed in (I do hope they pull it off).

I think you're referring to the motorola support and i am completely in line with your thinking. I'm willing to give Anthem a pass on their decision to forego firewire but I do understand why others might not. I dont know that the firewire thing necesserily plays into the DSP thing but i see where youre coming from.

If it makes you feel any better, I probably have even less faith in Onkyo/IR taking care of their customers needs or their promise of being like Nostradamus!Evan

I genuinely wish the best for you and everyone who spends this kind of money on audio gear. In this price range, users deserve the thrill that great gear can provide. I hope the 7.1, the D2, the Lexicon, etc all live up to the expectations their owners have for them and put smiles on the faces of everyone who listens.

I genuinely wish the best for you and everyone who spends this kind of money on audio gear. In this price range, users deserve the thrill that great gear can provide. I hope the 7.1, the D2, the Lexicon, etc all live up to the expectations their owners have for them and put smiles on the faces of everyone who listens.


Right on Brother!!! :D

I finally reached a human in Joisey today. Jose hasn't answerd his phone - at least for me - for six months, nor has he returned any of my messages. So, today I zeroed out to the operator telling her I had a question obout the RDC-7. She connected me to product support and finally someone picked up. I asked about the Firewire upgrade and he said they hadn't heard anything "from Japan" for six months. (That coincides with my last communique with Jose.) I asked how I could follow up further and he asked me to hold. After a few minutes on hold and a few more minutes of rustling sounds and conversation from his end - I thought I was getting the lateral arabesque - he returned and said he would email "Japan" and email me whatever their reply was. He then took my email address. I am normally an optimistic person, but am having trouble maintaining that outlook on this . . .

I'm thinking about trading in my 5 year old Lexicon MC-12B for the RDC 7.1. I like the idea of it being card based and easily upgraded, HDMI 1.3 for example. I'm not too familiar with IR as a company. How's the audio & sound quality? Any insight will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Waboman,

I am in the same situation, and have been pondering doing the same thing. Finally decided to make the switch, and will be getting an RDC 7.1 to replace my MC-12.

Have you made any decisions yet?

Thanks
Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Congrats on your new purchase. I’m planning on switching my Lex for the RDC 7.1 within a week or two. Let me know what you think once you’ve had time to play with it. :) Thanks.

Wabo.

Can the RDC 7.1 be configured to do 7.1 in Zone 1 and 5.1 in Zone 2 (as well as stereo in Zone 3)? Can it do them simultaneously?

If so, is it possible to have 2 HDMI cards and use one output for Zone 1 and one for Zone 2?

Thanks,

Doug

Does the RDC-7.1 have a feature similar to Audyssey?

>
> Can the RDC 7.1 be configured to do 7.1 in Zone 1 and 5.1 in Zone 2
> (as well as stereo in Zone 3)?

Never tried it, but I don't see why not.

> Can it do them simultaneously?

I doubt it. I think you will have to reconfigure for each mode and it will
then take effect for all zones.

> If so, is it possible to have 2 HDMI cards and use one output for Zone
> 1 and one for Zone 2?

No. Slots are not multi purpose, except to a very limited degree. There is
a single slot for HDMI, for a card that supports only two inputs.

You can download the manual from the IR site. It will answer these
and similar questions, but be aware that it tends to ambiguity, is
anything but complete and is simply incorrect or misleading in spots.

-- Ron



Thanks,

Can the RDC 7.1 be configured to do 7.1 in Zone 1 and 5.1 in Zone 2 (as well as stereo in Zone 3)? Can it do them simultaneously?

If so, is it possible to have 2 HDMI cards and use one output for Zone 1 and one for Zone 2?

Thanks,

Doug

Yes, should be possible for 5.1, 7.1 and 2.0 with seperate sources and processing running on the first 2 zones, zone 3 will be limited to processing a seaperate stereo PCM source or analogue only. I havent tried it but it should be possible to connect two i-link dvds players in chain and run say DVD-A with processing to Zone A and SACD with processing to Zone B, Zone C could then use just a seperate analogue stereo or PCM source (No processing possible for zone C).

One HDMI card only and I think I'm write in saying one HDMI source at a time only (Unlike I-Link).

Thanks.

I took a look at the manual and it is supported, but with one major limitation. Only composite video out is supported in zones 2/3, which is a shame.

It looks like I'm going to have to jump through some hoops to work around this. I think I'll wire the video from one DVD and one cable box directly to the zone 2 plasma, bypassing the video switching on the RDC 7.1.

This means I'll have 2 video inputs and 4 multichannel audio inputs to the RDC. I'll use the HDMI card for the 2 main multichannel inputs and then either get the multichannel input module for the 2 zone 2 multichannel inputs, or use i.LINK, which I've yet to try. Of course my cable box isn't going to have i.LINK, so I'll probably need that card.

And then I'll have to explain to my wife why the video and sound in zone 2 don't match unless you press this button on this remote, and this button on that remote, hold your breath, kick the coffee table...(and that's with the fancy programmable remote!)

Doug

Does whatever controls your video switching in Zone 2 have RS232 control. The RDC-7.1 has an excellent RS232 implementation and you could use one of those programable boxes to sit between the Integra and Zone2 Video switch to ensure everything is fully integrated and get a much higher WAF.

Yes, should be possible for 5.1, 7.1 and 2.0 with seperate sources and processing running on the first 2 zones, zone 3 will be limited to processing a seaperate stereo PCM source or analogue only. I havent tried it but it should be possible to connect two i-link dvds players in chain and run say DVD-A with processing to Zone A and SACD with processing to Zone B, Zone C could then use just a seperate analogue stereo or PCM source (No processing possible for zone C).

One HDMI card only and I think I'm write in saying one HDMI source at a time only (Unlike I-Link).
i believe you are right because you can daisy chain i-link and hdmi you can not.

Do any RDC 7.1 owners have the Net-Tunes card, and are you familiar with its set up and operation?

I was curious whether anyone has a broadband connection and wireless network running with RDC 7.1 Net-Tunes. If so, how did you connect to the RDC 7.1?

The owner's manual strongly recommends using Ethernet rather than wireless. I've started looking for a wireless to Ethernet "converter", so far without success.

Would appreciate any suggtions you have / referral to a better place to discuss this topic.

Thanks
Bruce

Do any RDC 7.1 owners have the Net-Tunes card, and are you familiar with its set up and operation?

I was curious whether anyone has a broadband connection and wireless network running with RDC 7.1 Net-Tunes. If so, how did you connect to the RDC 7.1?

The owner's manual strongly recommends using Ethernet rather than wireless. I've started looking for a wireless to Ethernet "converter", so far without success.

Would appreciate any suggtions you have / referral to a better place to discuss this topic.

Thanks
Bruce
In case you want to try it despite the manufacturer's recommendation: Wireless-G Ethernet Bridge (http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1134692497433&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper)

"Connect any Ethernet-equipped device to a high-speed Wireless-G Network"

pepar,

Wow, I think this is just what I was trying to find. Thanks!

Bruce

pepar,

Wow, I think this is just what I was trying to find. Thanks!

Bruce
I *think* IR is concerned about throughput and data integrity. For those reasons, wireless connections are less desirable than hard-wired (ethernet). Caveat Emptor.

Do any RDC 7.1 owners have the Net-Tunes card, and are you familiar with its set up and operation?

I was curious whether anyone has a broadband connection and wireless network running with RDC 7.1 Net-Tunes. If so, how did you connect to the RDC 7.1?

The owner's manual strongly recommends using Ethernet rather than wireless. I've started looking for a wireless to Ethernet "converter", so far without success.


You could get a Squeezebox which will not only act as a wireless bridge for the Net-Tunes card but replace it completely :)

http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_squeezebox.html

--
Steve

In case you want to try it despite the manufacturer's recommendation: Wireless-G Ethernet Bridge (http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1134692497433&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper)

"Connect any Ethernet-equipped device to a high-speed Wireless-G Network"

I've had the Net-Tune card since I got the RDC-7.1, but never had it
connected. The problem is that the cable modem and router are in the
office area, while the A/V system is in the living area, which is far removed.

I'd rather not add another box to the A/V system... I do have a PC on the
A/V system. While IR does not recommend a wireless connection, mine is
fairly high speed and I'd like to try it. Suppose I connect the PC Ethernet
output the the Net-Tune card -- is there a piece of S/W that will direct the
PC wireless input to the Ethernet output?

-- Ron

You could get a Squeezebox which will not only act as a wireless bridge for the Net-Tunes card but replace it completely :)

http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_squeezebox.html

--
Steve

Steve,

Thanks for the reference. I have not been following internet radio and was not aware of this. I've already purchased the Net-Tunes card with the RDC 7.1 (due to arrive next week) so I'll stick with that for the time being.

Bruce

I've had the Net-Tune card since I got the RDC-7.1, but never had it
connected. The problem is that the cable modem and router are in the
office area, while the A/V system is in the living area, which is far removed.

I'd rather not add another box to the A/V system... I do have a PC on the
A/V system. While IR does not recommend a wireless connection, mine is
fairly high speed and I'd like to try it. Suppose I connect the PC Ethernet
output the the Net-Tune card -- is there a piece of S/W that will direct the
PC wireless input to the Ethernet output?

-- Ron
Sure, that's one of the main reasons to use WiFi - remote and difficult to wire components. You can add a wireless access point (WAP) to your present setup, or upgrade your existing router to a WAP/Router. No special software per se is needed, though you will need to set up the WAP with your PC. I don't use Net-Tune or a wireless bridge, so there's probably a bit more to it. And you should do some more research before buying, but just on the surface it seems like a perfect solution.

Sure, that's one of the main reasons to use WiFi - remote and difficult to wire components. You can add a wireless access point (WAP) to your present setup, or upgrade your existing router to a WAP/Router. No special software per se is needed, though you will need to set up the WAP with your PC. I don't use Net-Tune or a wireless bridge, so there's probably a bit more to it. And you should do some more research before buying, but just on the surface it seems like a perfect solution.

My router already acts as a WAP. It provides a wireless connection, through
which the PC accesses the Internet. I'm running Windows 2K. Are you
saying that if I connect the PC Ethernet port to the Net-Tune card, the PC
will feed that port with data it gets off the wireless connection, with no need
for additional S/W?

-- Ron

My router already acts as a WAP. It provides a wireless connection, through
which the PC accesses the Internet. I'm running Windows 2K. Are you
saying that if I connect the PC Ethernet port to the Net-Tune card, the PC
will feed that port with data it gets off the wireless connection, with no need
for additional S/W?

-- Ron
I'm a bit confused because I've assumed your topology is such that the cable modem, WAP/router and PC are in the exact same spot. What you are saying now leads me to thinking the CM and WAP/router are in one location and PC is in another. Right? Are your PC and RDC-7.1 in the same spot?

I'm a bit confused because I've assumed your topology is such that the cable modem, WAP/router and PC are in the exact same spot. What you are saying now leads me to thinking the CM and WAP/router are in one location and PC is in another. Right? Are your PC and RDC-7.1 in the same spot?

That's right. As I said before, the CM and router are in an office area. The A/V
system with the PC dedicated to it are located together in a separate area in
the same home. The PC is wirelessly connected to the internet, through the
router/WAP.

What I'd like to do is plug the PC Ethernet output to the Net-Tune input. I
thought I needed a piece of S/W (sort of a driver) that will route incoming
data from the wireless connection to the Ethernet output. I also thought
you stated that this will happen with no additional S/W. I wonderded
whether I understood you correctly. (In any case, I'll be able to test this
in a week or so.)

Are we reading off the same page now? :-)

-- Ron

That's right. As I said before, the CM and router are in an office area. The A/V
system with the PC dedicated to it are located together in a separate area in
the same home. The PC is wirelessly connected to the internet, through the
router/WAP.

What I'd like to do is plug the PC Ethernet output to the Net-Tune input. I
thought I needed a piece of S/W (sort of a driver) that will route incoming
data from the wireless connection to the Ethernet output. I also thought
you stated that this will happen with no additional S/W. I wonderded
whether I understood you correctly. (In any case, I'll be able to test this
in a week or so.)


So the router/WAP is with the cable modem? What kind of wireless device is the PC connected to? An internal PCI card? The easiest solution would be to plug both the PC and the Net-Tune card into another WAP. Then they could both talk to each other and to the Internet. If you plug the Net-Tune card into the PC it will be a little more complicated. You might have to use a special crossover cable (if neither device has auto-mdix), and the Net-Tune card would have to be configured to be on a separate network with a manually-assigned IP address. Then getting the card to talk to the Internet through the PC would require setting up packet forwarding and so on.

--
Steve

So the router/WAP is with the cable modem? What kind of wireless device is the PC connected to? An internal PCI card?

Actually, it's a USB wireless adater, but that should work exactly the same
as an internal PCI card.


The easiest solution would be to plug both the PC and the Net-Tune card into another WAP. Then they could both talk to each other and to the Internet.

Yea, but I am trying to avoid an additional box in this already complicated
system .

If you plug the Net-Tune card into the PC it will be a little more complicated. You might have to use a special crossover cable (if neither device has auto-mdix), and the Net-Tune card would have to be configured to be on a separate network with a manually-assigned IP address. Then getting the card to talk to the Internet through the PC would require setting up packet forwarding and so on.

Can you recommend a web site or some literature that will describe in detail
what needs to be done?

Thanks in advance,

-- Ron

That's right. As I said before, the CM and router are in an office area. The A/V
system with the PC dedicated to it are located together in a separate area in
the same home. The PC is wirelessly connected to the internet, through the
router/WAP.

What I'd like to do is plug the PC Ethernet output to the Net-Tune input. I
thought I needed a piece of S/W (sort of a driver) that will route incoming
data from the wireless connection to the Ethernet output. I also thought
you stated that this will happen with no additional S/W. I wonderded
whether I understood you correctly. (In any case, I'll be able to test this
in a week or so.)

Are we reading off the same page now? :-)
Yessir. The Net-Tune card expects to see a network. A direct-connected PC is not a network. However, there is something called a "crossover cable (http://www.duxcw.com/digest/Howto/network/cable/cable1.htm)" with different wiring that does allow connecting two computers without a network switch. Whether it will work with your configuration I do not know. If the Net-Tune card can be assigned an IP address at the RDC-7.1, you're probably good to go. If it needs to have one dynamically allocated, I'm not so sure if it will work. FWIW, the cable should only be a few dollars.

Yessir. The Net-Tune card expects to see a network. A direct-connected PC is not a network. However, there is something called a "crossover cable (http://www.duxcw.com/digest/Howto/network/cable/cable1.htm)" with different wiring that does allow connecting two computers without a network switch. Whether it will work with your configuration I do not know. If the Net-Tune card can be assigned an IP address at the RDC-7.1, you're probably good to go. If it needs to have one dynamically allocated, I'm not so sure if it will work. FWIW, the cable should only be a few dollars.

Thanks much. Looks like the cross-over cable is pretty easy to make.
I'll put one together next week and see how it goes...

-- Ron

Thanks much. Looks like the cross-over cable is pretty easy to make.
I'll put one together next week and see how it goes...

-- Ron

The crossover cable will only allow signals to pass between the Net-Tune card and the PC. It won't create the proper network configuration for you. And the crossover cable quite likely isn't even necessary as many modern ethernet devices have auto-MDIX where they can detect the type of device they're talking to and adapt appropriately using a normal straight-through cable.

Once the Net-Tune card is talking to the PC you would have to manually create a private subnet for those two devices by assigning IP addresses to each device, and then configure routing from that network to your Wi-Fi network. That can be fairly tricky to get working. I wouldn't recommend that approach.

--
Steve

Yea, but I am trying to avoid an additional box in this already complicated
system .

You wouldn't need an additional box. You'd be replacing your wireless USB adapter with a wireless access point that would connect to both the PC and the Net-Tune card using ethernet and supply wireless access to both (plus let them talk directly to each other).

--
Steve

The crossover cable will only allow signals to pass between the Net-Tune card and the PC. It won't create the proper network configuration for you. And the crossover cable quite likely isn't even necessary as many modern ethernet devices have auto-MDIX where they can detect the type of device they're talking to and adapt appropriately using a normal straight-through cable.

Once the Net-Tune card is talking to the PC you would have to manually create a private subnet for those two devices by assigning IP addresses to each device, and then configure routing from that network to your Wi-Fi network. That can be fairly tricky to get working. I wouldn't recommend that approach.

--
Steve
Didn't someone already post this info? Gosh, I'm pretty sure it was me. :)

My conclusion though is that it would cost a few dollars, and at worst, simply wouldn't work.

Well, I got my RDC-7.1 back from Onkyo UK today and it has some very interesting new firmware.

Master Version: 2.00
I-Link Version: 1.02
DAB Version: 1.00

The new firmware add a new main menu entry for the DAB module with plenty of options. But more important to you guys in the USA, I would say it probably adds support for more new modules than just the DAB module. It also adds an option for each input to force DTS or PCM or leave it on the old Auto setting.

I cant comment on the DAB module because I dont have an aerial for it yet.

Update - DAB module is rather good:
Full Band 3 & L Band Support
Defeatable DRC
Radio Text Support
Also AM/FM Tuner with full RDS/EON

Thanks.

I took a look at the manual and it is supported, but with one major limitation. Only composite video out is supported in zones 2/3, which is a shame.

It looks like I'm going to have to jump through some hoops to work around this. I think I'll wire the video from one DVD and one cable box directly to the zone 2 plasma, bypassing the video switching on the RDC 7.1.

This means I'll have 2 video inputs and 4 multichannel audio inputs to the RDC. I'll use the HDMI card for the 2 main multichannel inputs and then either get the multichannel input module for the 2 zone 2 multichannel inputs, or use i.LINK, which I've yet to try. Of course my cable box isn't going to have i.LINK, so I'll probably need that card.

And then I'll have to explain to my wife why the video and sound in zone 2 don't match unless you press this button on this remote, and this button on that remote, hold your breath, kick the coffee table...(and that's with the fancy programmable remote!)

Doug

Firmware 1.09 and forward supports HDMI/Component in all zones. If you however want to have different material shown at the same time you have to use the composite/S-Video.

Well, I got my RDC-7.1 back from Onkyo UK today and it has some very interesting new firmware.

Master Version: 2.00
I-Link Version: 1.02
DAB Version: 1.00

The new firmware add a new main menu entry for the DAB module with plenty of options. But more important to you guys in the USA, I would say it probably adds support for more new modules than just the DAB module. It also adds an option for each input to force DTS or PCM or leave it on the old Auto setting.

I cant comment on the DAB module because I dont have an aerial for it yet.

Update - DAB module is rather good:
Full Band 3 & L Band Support
Defeatable DRC
Radio Text Support
Also AM/FM Tuner with full RDS/EON

...interesting, thx for the update. A major number change in the firmware would have to be indicative of large changes in the code & like you say preparations for further card releases.
I'm looking forward to what they come up with for the revised hdmi card.

Well, I got my RDC-7.1 back from Onkyo UK today and it has some very interesting new firmware.

Update - DAB module is rather good:
Full Band 3 & L Band Support
Defeatable DRC
Radio Text Support
Also AM/FM Tuner with full RDS/EON
Very interesting Krobar.Is L band short for longwave ? Defeatable DRC sounds like were finally getting non compressed transmissions :) Radio text support may tell us what were listening to [apart from pile ups on the M1- I wish we had RDS/EON] :rolleyes:

LBand is an alternative band used by DAB, it is not actually related to longwave at all but is I suppose a bit like a modern equivilent. Its not yet in use in the UK but will be used in the next few years, other parts of the world use it already.

DRC for DAB is additional information carried in the signal which can optionally be used to deliberately reduce dynamic range (This is very useful for Car cabins and other noisy environments). Some DAB tuners leave it on all the time which is not ideal for an HT setup.

Radio text tells you what song is playing, who the presenter is and other information, its well supported here in the UK. To my ear DAB is cleaner and more clinicial sounding than FM, not an upgrade in the sound quality department but a big upgrade for me in terms of selection of radio stations and ease of use.

DRC for DAB is additional information carried in the signal which can optionally be used to deliberately reduce dynamic range (This is very useful for Car cabins and other noisy environments). Some DAB tuners leave it on all the time which is not ideal for an HT setup.

Radio text tells you what song is playing, who the presenter is and other information, its well supported here in the UK. To my ear DAB is cleaner and more clinicial sounding than FM, not an upgrade in the sound quality department but a big upgrade for me in terms of selection of radio stations and ease of use.
Thanks for the clarification Krobar; I imagine DAB would cut down on multipath compared to FM [ If in a city with lots of tall buildings].I imagine the signal to be like digital TV - either its there or Its fallen of the so-called digital cliff.They even apply DRC to AM in this country - paranoia about blowing dinky speakers :(

I am now an RDC 7.1 owner, and just finished installing my unit last night. I'm still in the process of familiarizing myself with its operations and user interface.

One area where I am having trouble is the on screen display. What I would like to do is have the OSD appear on the component output of the RDC 7.1 and be displayed on my TV using the TV's component input. Can this be done? Are there any specific things I need to do to get this to work?

Somewhat related question, will the RDC convert composite and s-video inputs to component, so they can be viewed on the TV using a component connection?

I have the component output of the RDC 7.1 connected to component input 3 on the TV, (Samsung HLN-617W), which accepts 480p, 720p, and 1080i but does not accept 480i. I went into the RDC 7.1 and set the output for OSD to noninterlaced, but when I try to view the RDC menu on the TV, with nothing else turned on, I get a signal on the TV saying it does not support that input.

I can play DVDs over component (component output from the DVD player plugged into a component input on the RDC, and then the same component output from the RDC into component 3 input on the TV), but there is no OSD overlayed on the DVD video.

Would appreciate any suggestions / clarifications you can provide.

Thanks
Bruce

I am now an RDC 7.1 owner, and just finished installing my unit last night. I'm still in the process of familiarizing myself with its operations and user interface.

Bruce,

Could you please check the master firmware version on your unit - submenu 8? Is it 1.09?

Thanks,

R

Razvanel,
My firmware is:
Master 1.09
i.Link 1.02
Net-tune 1.00 (not being used yet)

I checked the settings for my OSD display, and they are set to:
53.a Component Video: OSD On
53.b Immediate Display: On
53.c Position: Bottom
53.d Scan Mode: Noninterlaced

Thanks
Bruce

I am now an RDC 7.1 owner, and just finished installing my unit last night. I'm still in the process of familiarizing myself with its operations and user interface.

One area where I am having trouble is the on screen display. What I would like to do is have the OSD appear on the component output of the RDC 7.1 and be displayed on my TV using the TV's component input. Can this be done? Are there any specific things I need to do to get this to work?
Bruce, I am on my fourth (!!!) unit form Integra research and this one finally
seems to work... or at least, close enough. I too, have a similar problem, but
it's not serious enough to bother with. I have set the RDC-7.1 to component
video OSD: ON (menu item 5-3-a). I can get the setup screen on all inputs,
but volume indication appears only for some inputs and not on others. It is
not clear to me why.

Somewhat related question, will the RDC convert composite and s-video inputs to component, so they can be viewed on the TV using a component connection?
Yes, it does. My only connection to the TV (Toshiba 65" RPTV) is with
component video. All inputs (compositer video, S-Video and component)
come through just fine. Unfortunately, the RDC-7.1 will not downconvert
HDMI to to component video, even though the manual says it will.

My TV does not have an imput that will not accept 480i, so I can't address
that question.

-- Ron

Bruce, I am on my fourth (!!!) unit form Integra research

I am on my 5th unit and it's not perfect but I guess I'll live with the problems, too tired of exchanging units. I recently heard that a few months ago IR did some changes to the RDC-7.1 but I don't exactly what those changes were.

R

Razvanel,
My firmware is:
Master 1.09
i.Link 1.02
Net-tune 1.00 (not being used yet)

Thanks for the info, there was a rumor that that there was a new master firmware version released a while ago - 1.10 - I guess that that's not true.

R

Razvanel,

Do you use the OSD on your RDC? If so, do you use component for the OSD?

Thanks
Bruce

Razvanel,Do you use the OSD on your RDC? If so, do you use component for the OSD?

Yes to both questions. OSD via component works on my unit.

My settings for my OSD display are:
53.a Component Video: OSD On
53.b Immediate Display: On
53.c Position: Bottom
53.d Scan Mode: Interlaced

On my first RDC-7.1 the OSD via component didn't work and IR replaced the unit.

R

Yes to both questions. OSD via component works on my unit.

My settings for my OSD display are:
53.a Component Video: OSD On
53.b Immediate Display: On
53.c Position: Bottom
53.d Scan Mode: Interlaced

On my first RDC-7.1 the OSD via component didn't work and IR replaced the unit.

R

Razvanel,

Thanks for the feedback. I hope I don't have to replace the unit- that's a lot of work to uninstall / reinstall!

I notice your scan mode is set to interlaced. What display are you using? Which component output do you use to send the OSD to your display? Do you send other video sources to your display over the same component connection?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, trying to better understand the RDC.

Thanks
Bruce

Thanks for the feedback. I hope I don't have to replace the unit- that's a lot of work to uninstall / reinstall!

I notice your scan mode is set to interlaced. What display are you using? Which component output do you use to send the OSD to your display? Do you send other video sources to your display over the same component connection?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, trying to better understand the RDC

Bruce,

No problem at all.

I have a Panasonic 42PD25 ED plasma, it accepts 480i, 480p, and 1080i. I use component 1 for a Panasonic RP82 DVD player set to output 480p and component 2 for a Philips 480i player. If I set the scan mode on the RDC-7.1 to noninterlaced the OSD is blurry.

R

Looks like my OSD problems were operator error. Its now working.

I removed both the composite and s-video feeds from the RDC to the TV since the RDC can convert everything to component. I connected the RDC component output to component 1 input on the TV, which accepts 480i and 480p. The OSD now works with these changes.

I tried both interlaced and noninterlaced mode on the OSD, and on my system the noninterlaced was better.

I also went into the set up menus, using the TV display (much easier to read than the RDC's display from 12' away!), and turned unused video inputs to off for the sources I use.

One thing I did notice is when I have a source turned on, like the DVD player, the RDC OSD doesn't seem to overlay on the video. I can go into set-up mode, and the video will be blanked while the sep-up menu is displayed, but when I exit set-up the video reappears but OSD items like volume do not show. Is this the experience of others? Do I need more operator training?

Thanks
Bruce

I turned unused video inputs to off

Me too, I did the same thing for unused audio inputs too.

R

One thing I did notice is when I have a source turned on, like the DVD player, the RDC OSD doesn't seem to overlay on the video. I can go into set-up mode, and the video will be blanked while the sep-up menu is displayed, but when I exit set-up the video reappears but OSD items like volume do not show. Is this the experience of others? Do I need more operator training?

You don't need more operator training, that's how the RDC works.

R

Looks like my OSD problems were operator error. Its now working.

I removed both the composite and s-video feeds from the RDC to the TV since the RDC can convert everything to component. I connected the RDC component output to component 1 input on the TV, which accepts 480i and 480p. The OSD now works with these changes.

I tried both interlaced and noninterlaced mode on the OSD, and on my system the noninterlaced was better.

I also went into the set up menus, using the TV display (much easier to read than the RDC's display from 12' away!), and turned unused video inputs to off for the sources I use.

One thing I did notice is when I have a source turned on, like the DVD player, the RDC OSD doesn't seem to overlay on the video. I can go into set-up mode, and the video will be blanked while the sep-up menu is displayed, but when I exit set-up the video reappears but OSD items like volume do not show. Is this the experience of others? Do I need more operator training?

Thanks
Bruce


That's my experience, as well. Seems the RDC-7.1 does not overlay
the video with OSD, but, rather, replaces it.

Volume indication also does not appear on certain inputs -- probably,
due to the same reason. (If so, it's a H/W design 'feature' and
probably cannot be corrected with F/W updates.).

-- Ron

Razvanel, Ron,

Thanks for the feedback on what is normal operation.

So far, mostly watching / listening to DVD concerts, my wife and I both like the sound very much. We listen to everything in 7.1, using DPLIIx Music or DPLIIx Movie.

Bruce

http://www.integraresearch.com/own_manuals.cfm

XM Radio module manual is up. Should mean V2.X firmware is available soon from dealers.

Guys,

Could you do me a favor and check the following on your RDC-7.1's: when you switch the surround back speakers in zone A from Main A 2ch to Bi-Amp for Front, do you hear an internal relay click or not?

To check that follow the steps below:

Go to Zone (Main) A Setup Menu
Select 1. Speaker/Output Setup
Select 1. Speaker Configuration
Go to d. Surr Back and switch from Main A 2ch to Bi-amp for Front, do you hear a click?

Thanks,

R

Raz,

You have a PM.

Art

Hello,
Has anyone heard any news or saw ANYTHING at all at CEDIA concerning a possible new hdmi card for the RDC 7.1 ???

Thank you,
Charles2006

Nope, no announcement was expected AFAIK

Hello,
Has anyone heard any news or saw ANYTHING at all at CEDIA concerning a possible new hdmi card for the RDC 7.1 ???

Thank you,
Charles2006

They are going to hold off until HDMI 1.3 chips are available for a new card. They did develop an HDMI 1.2 card, but decided not to release it and wait.

They are going to hold off until HDMI 1.3 chips are available for a new card. They did develop an HDMI 1.2 card, but decided not to release it and wait.

If the above is correct then they have got to be developing support for new audio formats otherwise why bother with HDMI 1.3 support? The only other reason would be to pass deep colour double clocked signals but I cannot see any reason why that would be worth a 1-2 year delay.

Hi Guys,

I have the opportunity to buy a RDC-7 for around $1500.00. My question, is there a way to send in to get an upgraded version to the modular 7.1 unit?

If so, does anyone know how much?

I would be using the existing amps in my HK 7200 for a while until I get a dedicated Amp.

Any suggestions on the Amp? I was thinking about the Gemstone Blue Diamond. Do these two make a good combo?

Thanks,

Chad

My question, is there a way to send in to get an upgraded version to the modular 7.1 unit?

No, the trade-in offer expired last year.

R

Hi Guys,

I have the opportunity to buy a RDC-7 for around $1500.00. My question, is there a way to send in to get an upgraded version to the modular 7.1 unit?
No.

I've been following this thread and other reviews on the RDC 7.1 very closely... :)

how do you guys think the 7.1 would perform compared to say, an Anthem AVM-50 or a Cary Cinema 11?

I'm trying to narrow down my choices, and never really considered the Integra, but seems from all the feedback and reviews to be a stellar performer.

would love to hear some feedback on this...

Second call...

I have an RDC-7.1 tuner card that I find I never use (I do listen to FM,
but through an external tuner). I'd be willing to sell it very reasonably.

-- Ron

I just got an RDC 7.1 last week and like it so far. However, I can't read the volume display. Does anyone know if there is a way to increase the size of the volume display.

ssabrio,,,
on one hand, many of us do discuss some shortcomings of integra regarding their slowness in putting out new cards for the integra, but, on the other hand,
It is, probably still today, one of the more complete pre/processors out there when it comes to functions and usability. Soundwize,, it is a serious piece of equipment.

In fact I was also intrested in the Anthem before when it was time to move on from my previous RDC 7.0, but,, choice was the 7.1 and I still haven't found another product that would suite my needs/wants better.

I just got an RDC 7.1 last week and like it so far. However, I can't read the volume display. Does anyone know if there is a way to increase the size of the volume display.

No, there isn't.

-- Ron

I have been a very happy IR 7.0 owner for 3 years. No problems whatsoever. I am considering upgrading to the 7.1. I have read through most, if not all of this thread, and I have a question regarding the 7.1 HDMI card.

Can the HDMI input accept a multi-channel audio output from a DVD player such as the Oppo 981HD, or do I need to find a DVD player with firewire?

I don't care about the HDMI video now, as my Panasonic plasma only accepts component, and I am perfectly happy with that for now. I just want to play DVD-A discs without all of the analog cables that I am currently using with my 7.0.

Thanks,

Pilot

I have been a very happy IR 7.0 owner for 3 years. No problems whatsoever. I am considering upgrading to the 7.1. I have read through most, if not all of this thread, and I have a question regarding the 7.1 HDMI card.

Can the HDMI input accept a multi-channel audio output from a DVD player such as the Oppo 981HD, or do I need to find a DVD player with firewire?

I don't care about the HDMI video now, as my Panasonic plasma only accepts component, and I am perfectly happy with that for now. I just want to play DVD-A discs without all of the analog cables that I am currently using with my 7.0.

Thanks,

Pilot
Whether or not you care about HDMI video now, an RDC-7.1 should be in your system for a long time. If possible, I'd wait until they release an HDMI 1.3 module. I have the RDC-7 and that's what it would take for me to make the move.

I have been a very happy IR 7.0 owner for 3 years. No problems whatsoever. I am considering upgrading to the 7.1. I have read through most, if not all of this thread, and I have a question regarding the 7.1 HDMI card.

Can the HDMI input accept a multi-channel audio output from a DVD player such as the Oppo 981HD, or do I need to find a DVD player with firewire?

I don't care about the HDMI video now, as my Panasonic plasma only accepts component, and I am perfectly happy with that for now. I just want to play DVD-A discs without all of the analog cables that I am currently using with my 7.0.

Thanks,

Pilot

The RDC-7.1 manual, page 15, in the section describing the HDMI option card,
states: "This interface can transfer digital audio and video signals simultaneously."
However, page 31, in the section describing types of connection cables and
terminals, states "This connection carries video signals digitally (Note that no
audio signal is carried with this unit)."

Page 43. devoted to explanation of HDMI, goes even further. Top of the page
states unequivocally, that HDMI allows both video and audio transmission.
However, at the bottom, in the section 'How to Make a Connection through the
HDMI interface', it is again stated that for audio transmission, a separate audio
connection is required, since the RDC-7.1 cannot play back any audio signals
delivered to the HDMI inputs.

Seems to me that, confusing as it is, some statements in the manual apply to
the HDMI standard in general, while others apply to the specific RDC-7.1
implementation. Unfortunately, they neglected to mention which is which.

I have the HDMI card, but do not use it. I ordered it because of another
misleading statement in the manual, claiming that all video outputs carry any
video input, properly converted. I intended to feed the DVD and STB to HDMI
inputs and drive the display from a component video output. Only after getting
the unit and calling IR's Customer Support did I find out that format conversion
only works in the upward direction (meaning, all inputs convert to HDMI, but
not vice versa).

To answer your question in a nutshell... No, the RDC-7.1 HDMI card does not
support audio. For DVD-A use iLink. I do and it works fine.

-- Ron

The RDC-7.1 manual, page 15, in the section describing the HDMI option card,
states: "This interface can transfer digital audio and video signals simultaneously."
However, page 31, in the section describing types of connection cables and
terminals, states "This connection carries video signals digitally (Note that no
audio signal is carried with this unit)."

Page 43. devoted to explanation of HDMI, goes even further. Top of the page
states unequivocally, that HDMI allows both video and audio transmission.
However, at the bottom, in the section 'How to Make a Connection through the
HDMI interface', it is again stated that for audio transmission, a separate audio
connection is required, since the RDC-7.1 cannot play back any audio signals
delivered to the HDMI inputs.

Seems to me that, confusing as it is, some statements in the manual apply to
the HDMI standard in general, while others apply to the specific RDC-7.1
implementation. Unfortunately, they neglected to mention which is which.

I have the HDMI card, but do not use it. I ordered it because of another
misleading statement in the manual, claiming that all video outputs carry any
video input, properly converted. I intended to feed the DVD and STB to HDMI
inputs and drive the display from a component video output. Only after getting
the unit and calling IR's Customer Support did I find out that format conversion
only works in the upward direction (meaning, all inputs convert to HDMI, but
not vice versa).

To answer your question in a nutshell... No, the RDC-7.1 HDMI card does not
support audio. For DVD-A use iLink. I do and it works fine.

-- Ron

Pepar/Ron,

Thank you for your excellent replies. I guess that if I decide to go with the 7.1 (leaning in that direction) that I will be looking for an iLink DVD player such as the Pioneer DV-79AVi. If I. R. ever decides to offer an upgrade HDMI card, I can always go that route.

Thanks again,

Pilot

The Integra DVD player with I-Link might be a better match than the Pioneer. It has better deinterlacing and more importantly can apply this better deinterlacing to all sources and display the RDC-7.1 OSD over HDMI (None of this is possible with the Pioneer).

Does anyone have the XM Radio Card? I just got an RDC 7.1 yesterday, with the card installed, but cannot figure out how to use it. I went to the hardware menu, as the online product guide instructions suggest, but there is no Sat Radio to select. Is there something I am missing? The firmware is Master 1.09 and ilink 1.02, no other firmwares are listed. This is actually the second unit I have got from Integra that has not seemed to allow the XM radio to work, the first time they told me a firmware update was necessary, unfortunately the unit crashed when the dealer tried to update it and it was sent back. After assuring me the new one would have all firmware up to date and the XM Card would work, I am having the same problem.

So I was wondering could Integra be this incompetent or am I not setting up the RDC 7.1 or XM correctly? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. The Integra 800 number was not very helpful as the guy I spoke with simply stated they do not offer an XM card?

That will not work! You need at leat firmware 2.00 or higher to support the new radio cards. Also, the XM Radio should have its own firmware installed.

Have some strong words with whooever sold that to you. If you are happy connecting a PC to the unit for an hour then it can be solved at home if they send you the firmware.

So I was wondering could Integra be this incompetent

Yes.

R

Thanks for clearing the confusion up. Has anyone else had their unit crash when it was updated with firmware? I am afraid to have my dealer update it again and have it crash, I don't want to have to deal with not having the processor again. Anyone know why Integra won't just let us update the firmware ourselves, most other companies seem to permit this.

I have updated 5-6 times with no issues. It takes an hour + sometimes but progress is shown on screen.

Integra used to let us update the firmware ourselves. Nowadays it depends how helpful your dealer is (Some will jsut pass the firmware on to their users).

I have updated 5-6 times with no issues. It takes an hour + sometimes but progress is shown on screen.

Integra used to let us update the firmware ourselves. Nowadays it depends how helpful your dealer is (Some will jsut pass the firmware on to their users).

I have updated a couple of times myself. I had a problem only once, when
the RDC-7.1 itself was defective.

On another note: I didn't realize there was an V2.0 (or later?) update.
Would someone please email the file to me (ronami@yahoo.com)?

TIA,

-- Ron

Trying again...

I have an RDC-7.1 tuner card that I find I never use (I do listen to FM,
but through an external tuner). I'd be willing to sell it very reasonably.
Anyone inetersted?

-- Ron

I have updated a couple of times myself. I had a problem only once, when
the RDC-7.1 itself was defective.

On another note: I didn't realize there was an V2.0 (or later?) update.
Would someone please email the file to me (ronami@yahoo.com)?

TIA,

-- Ron

AFAIK no one here has the files yet. My upgrade was done at a service center by Onkyo UK as part of the DAB upgrade.

AFAIK no one here has the files yet. My upgrade was done at a service center by Onkyo UK as part of the DAB upgrade.

Well, I contacted IR for the files. The rep told me that they no longer
supply the file, period, and I'll have to lug the unit to a service center.
For me, that's a major hassle (not to mention, expense) -- the unit
is too heavy for me to take out of the cabinet and in my installation,
connecting/disconnecting to the rest of the system is a multi hour
effort. His response: "It's our policy" (have you noticed how every
time a business is out to shaft you, they rely on 'their' policy?).

Anyway, I asked to talk to a supervisor. She explained that customers
have caused problems while updating the unit and if I insist on getting
the file, they require me to sign a release, stating that any problem
will be my responsibility.

I said, send me the form to sign. But my take is that if problems
appear during F/W update, it's a clear indication of piss poor H/W
and/or S/W design (not a big surprise with the RDC-7.1). There are
a myriad of devices on the market that allow for F/W uploading and
they all seem to work flawlessly, why is the RDC-7.1 such a glaring
exception? The need to take the unit out of the system and bring or
ship it to a dealer negates the benefits of uploadable F/W that IR is
touting.

-- Ron

Krobar,
When you check firmware version on the unit, does it display an XM/Sat radio version, in addition to the Master and i link versions. Or is the update rolled into the Master firmware version? The new unit I got also has the front panel motor broken, so it looks like this unit is going to have to be sent back as well. Hope 3rd time is a charm.

Krobar,
When you check firmware version on the unit, does it display an XM/Sat radio version, in addition to the Master and i link versions. Or is the update rolled into the Master firmware version? The new unit I got also has the front panel motor broken, so it looks like this unit is going to have to be sent back as well. Hope 3rd time is a charm.

Yes, it displays Dab V1.0 as well. DAB is a Euro standard for digital radio, DAB and XM support were both added to the 2.X firmware, I assume you see XM V1.XX. Please note that additional firmware versions are only displayed if the module is in place, so if you do not have the XM module it would not mention the XM firmware.

I have my RDC 7.1 hooked up to a Denon 3910 and it has been working fine. However, I put in a SACD last night and there was a very loud static/white noise sound coming out of the speakers, I could barely hear the music playing over it. Anyone experience a similar problem? The CD layer played fine, as do DVD-A and regular DVDs.

I think you need to try another I-Link player if at all possible.

I have my RDC 7.1 hooked up to a Denon 3910 and it has been working fine. However, I put in a SACD last night and there was a very loud static/white noise sound coming out of the speakers, I could barely hear the music playing over it. Anyone experience a similar problem? The CD layer played fine, as do DVD-A and regular DVDs.

Try powering off (not standby) both units for five minutes.

I'm having trouble with the remore for the RDC 7.1, and was wondering if anyone has encountered a similar situation.

Yesterday, I was trying to switch inputs and noticed the PrePro itself was not responding properly. I looked at the display window on the remote and it said BATT, which I took to mean the batteries needed replacing. I tried replacing the batteries twice and am having the same issue:

Neither the On / Standby buttons nor the Volume control work- the red indicator at the top of the remote does not light up when I hit On, or Standby, or Volume Up or Volume Down. I checked and rechecked to make sure the 2nd line in the display window said AMP, and not the input device, when trying to do this.

Other buttons on the remote do work; e.g., the Joystick / Enter button in the middle of the remote, and changing the surround processing mode. I can see the red indicator light turn on at the top of the remote when I push those buttons, and the PrePro unit responds accordingly.

I've tried reading the manual, playing with Mode, Input, and some of the other buttons all without fixing the problem.

The remote and the PrePro worked perfectly until yesterday. I don't know if this problem was caused by me pushing a wrong button, or if something went bad in the remote itself.

Has anyone else encountered this?

Does anyone have a suggestion of what to try before I start contacting IR service?

Thanks
Bruce

Does it exhibit this behavior on all inputs?

I'm having trouble with the remore for the RDC 7.1, and was wondering if anyone has encountered a similar situation.

Yesterday, I was trying to switch inputs and noticed the PrePro itself was not responding properly. I looked at the display window on the remote and it said BATT, which I took to mean the batteries needed replacing. I tried replacing the batteries twice and am having the same issue:

Neither the On / Standby buttons nor the Volume control work- the red indicator at the top of the remote does not light up when I hit On, or Standby, or Volume Up or Volume Down. I checked and rechecked to make sure the 2nd line in the display window said AMP, and not the input device, when trying to do this.

Other buttons on the remote do work; e.g., the Joystick / Enter button in the middle of the remote, and changing the surround processing mode. I can see the red indicator light turn on at the top of the remote when I push those buttons, and the PrePro unit responds accordingly.

I've tried reading the manual, playing with Mode, Input, and some of the other buttons all without fixing the problem.

The remote and the PrePro worked perfectly until yesterday. I don't know if this problem was caused by me pushing a wrong button, or if something went bad in the remote itself.

Has anyone else encountered this?

Does anyone have a suggestion of what to try before I start contacting IR service?

Thanks
Bruce

Does it exhibit this behavior on all inputs?

gimp,

Yes, the problem exists on all inputs.

I'm focused on the remote being the problem, rather than the RDC 7.1 itself. The remote does not light up the red transmit light at the top when I push the buttons in question. By contrast, all of the other buttons make the red transmitter light go on, and the RDC 7.1 responds to those commands.

Thanks
Bruce

I only asked because I have a similar problem with mine except it only happens on the input I use the most (go figure). Try resetting the remote:

Resetting the Remote Controller

1
Press and hold the [Custom] button
for more than three seconds.
The remote controller enters Custom
mode.
[1 PRGRM]

2
Roll the scroll wheel to select
“SETUP,” and then press the scroll
wheel.
[S SETUP]

3
Roll the scroll wheel to select
“RESET,” and then press the scroll
wheel.
[S1 RESET]

4
Roll the scroll wheel to select
“YES,” and then press the scroll
wheel.
The remote controller is reset to its
default settings.
[CLEARING->->->519 OK]

gimp,

Yes, the problem exists on all inputs.

I'm focused on the remote being the problem, rather than the RDC 7.1 itself. The remote does not light up the red transmit light at the top when I push the buttons in question. By contrast, all of the other buttons make the red transmitter light go on, and the RDC 7.1 responds to those commands.

Thanks
Bruce

I only asked because I have a similar problem with mine except it only happens on the input I use the most (go figure). Try resetting the remote:

Resetting the Remote Controller

1
Press and hold the [Custom] button
for more than three seconds.
The remote controller enters Custom
mode.
[1 PRGRM]

2
Roll the scroll wheel to select
“SETUP,” and then press the scroll
wheel.
[S SETUP]

3
Roll the scroll wheel to select
“RESET,” and then press the scroll
wheel.
[S1 RESET]

4
Roll the scroll wheel to select
“YES,” and then press the scroll
wheel.
The remote controller is reset to its
default settings.
[CLEARING->->->519 OK]

gimp,

That worked! The remote is back to normal. Thank you very much.

Bruce

I spoke to the UK sales mgr at the Bristol audio show last Saturday. I asked about Integra Research and he said that as of some time last year, Onkyo will NOT supply any units into Europe as they fail some EU standards (he didn't know which - he seemed rather dismissive of the EU in a rather unprofessional manner). He also stated that there would be no future plans to import IR into Europe either. I'm VERY disappointed! I've been waiting for HDMI 1.3 to be sorted out then order a procesor. Seems I can no longer buy IR in the UK!
I spoke to the Denon guy in the room next door and come the Summer, I'll probably get the new Denon processor when it's released.

Terry

I spoke to the UK sales mgr at the Bristol audio show last Saturday. I asked about Integra Research and he said that as of some time last year, Onkyo will NOT supply any units into Europe as they fail some EU standards (he didn't know which - he seemed rather dismissive of the EU in a rather unprofessional manner). He also stated that there would be no future plans to import IR into Europe either. I'm VERY disappointed! I've been waiting for HDMI 1.3 to be sorted out then order a procesor. Seems I can no longer buy IR in the UK!
I spoke to the Denon guy in the room next door and come the Summer, I'll probably get the new Denon processor when it's released.

Terry

Terry,

Are you talking about the new Denon PrePro (versus a receiver)? If so, any idea of the price?

Thanks
Bruce

If it's the same one that was shown at this years CES show, they are talking around a $7,500 MSRP for it.

[.......]
I spoke to the Denon guy in the room next door and come the Summer, I'll probably get the new Denon processor when it's released.
Terry

I used to own Denon's old pre-pro (AVP-8000). Actually, I still do
(it's the 2nd unit they shipped me). Also, the MCD-460 carousel
CD player (very flimsy, clanky and flaky), then the DVD-3800 DVD
player (they refunded my money after failing three tries at fixing
it, thank God). Ate a lot of crow with each and every one of these.

I don't think I'll ever buy another Denon product.

-- Ron

I've owned several Denon products and some did require repair/upgrade, however I always found Denon to be honest, fair and cooperative. Unlike Onkyo/Integra/Integra Research, which are impossible to deal with. Based on my past experiences I would definitely buy future Denon products. I will never, ever again buy a O/I/IR product.

I used to own Denon's old pre-pro (AVP-8000). Actually, I still do
(it's the 2nd unit they shipped me). Also, the MCD-460 carousel
CD player (very flimsy, clanky and flaky), then the DVD-3800 DVD
player (they refunded my money after failing three tries at fixing
it, thank God). Ate a lot of crow with each and every one of these.

I don't think I'll ever buy another Denon product.

-- Ron

Hi Bruce,
It's the one Johnla refers to. His estimate is probably correct. Certainly can't see the pair being cheaper - we guessed £3-4 k for just the processor
The pair will cost more than the A1 AV amp for sure - the Denon guy simply didn't know as the decision hasn't been made yet.
The manager was very helpful and treated me with respect. I'm not too sure about his staff though. If it wasn't in the catalogue, it doesn't exist and they woudn't say anything was their attitude.
I'm only interested in their pre-pro - maybe a HD universal player when that comes out too.

Can Denon players be hacked to make them DVD region-free?

Most talk is, that it would be around $7,500.00 is just for the pre-pro. And for the whole setup with the pre-pro and the amp, there are people saying they were told it will be about a MSRP of somewhere around maybe $15,000.00 for both.

Can Denon players be hacked to make them DVD region-free?http://www.dvdupgrades.ch/list/Modification/DVDupgrades/Denon.html

HELP! I am trying to use the multichannel input on my RDC-7 and am having NO success. I have selected YES in the setup for MULTICHANNEL INPUT for VIDEO 1, but I cannot get any sound.

HELP! I am trying to use the multichannel input on my RDC-7 and am having NO success. I have selected YES in the setup for MULTICHANNEL INPUT for VIDEO 1, but I cannot get any sound.

I no longer use the multi-channel input, but when I did, it worked
as advertised. I simply selected Multichannel 1 in the input I wanted
(would be Video 1, in your case) and plugged the source device into
the multichannel jacks in the back.

Recheck your connections and settings. If correct, suspect a problem
with your RDC-7.1. It won't be the first time.

Good luck,

-- Ron

I no longer use the multi-channel input, but when I did, it worked
as advertised. I simply selected Multichannel 1 in the input I wanted
(would be Video 1, in your case) and plugged the source device into
the multichannel jacks in the back.

Recheck your connections and settings. If correct, suspect a problem
with your RDC-7.1. It won't be the first time.

Good luck,

-- Ron
I suspect the RDC-7 (no .1) which has been a pleasure - until now.

I suspect the RDC-7 (no .1) which has been a pleasure - until now.

Oooooops.... I missed the lack of .1 . Sorry. Everything I said
applies to the RDC-7.1

-- Ron

Some more new radio modules are releasing for the TX-NR1000/DTR-10.5/RDC-7.1:

C-SAT: Supports XM, Sirius, RDS FM, AM

C-HDSAT: Supports HD Radio, XM, Sirius, RDS FM, AM

Also a clever forum member is putting together a Windows I-Link audio player. I have been testing with it for a few weeks and 16/44 and 24/96 is now stable with my RDC-7.1. Very early days but you might want to keep an eye on this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=606901&page=2

Some more new radio modules are releasing for the TX-NR1000/DTR-10.5/RDC-7.1:

C-SAT: Supports XM, Sirius, RDS FM, AM

C-HDSAT: Supports HD Radio, XM, Sirius, RDS FM, AM

Also a clever forum member is putting together a Windows I-Link audio player. I have been testing with it for a few weeks and 16/44 and 24/96 is now stable with my RDC-7.1. Very early days but you might want to keep an eye on this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=606901&page=2

Krobar,

Thanks for this information. Any idea on when these will be available, and pricing?

On a related topic, have you heard anything about a newer HDMI card, version 1.1 or higher?

Bruce

Hi Bruce,

I would not be surprised if the new radio modules are available already. At a guess I would price the C-Sat @ $300 RRP and C-HDSAT @ $400-450 RRP but I have not seen any prices from Integra. Onkyo/Integra now have just about all the radio options covered which is quite impressive.

Have not heard anything about HDMI 1.3 kit. I doubt we will see any announcement from Onkyo until Q3 and they will prbably coincide this with their full HD DVD player / Blu ray player announcement.

Can someone please point me to a list of all current RDC-7.1 cards available? Is there an HDMI 1.3 card, or any talk of there being one? I'm also interested in knowing about DolbyHD and DTS-HD decoding.

TIA!

Can someone please point me to a list of all current RDC-7.1 cards available? Is there an HDMI 1.3 card, or any talk of there being one? I'm also interested in knowing about DolbyHD and DTS-HD decoding.

TIA!

Go to http://www.integraresearch.com/model.cfm?id=1&level=1
then Click on "to begin personalizing". Supply an email and zip code
and click on "Build my RDC-7.1".

-- Ron

Go to http://www.integraresearch.com/model.cfm?id=1&level=1
then Click on "to begin personalizing". Supply an email and zip code
and click on "Build my RDC-7.1".
Thanks, Ron. I've been there and am looking for more specific information than "HDMI Module." 1.1, 1.2 or 1.3? If not 1.3, is 1.3 coming anytime soon? And how about a 4x1 HDMI module as opposed to a 2x1? Also, will the RDC-7.1 be able to decode the next gen codecs such as DolbyHD and DTS-HD? If any of the things I mentioned are not in the RDC-7.1's future, then that is a deal breaker and I'll "suffer" with my RDC-7 for a while longer. :)

If not 1.3, is 1.3 coming anytime soon? Also, will the RDC-7.1 be able to decode the next gen codecs such as DolbyHD and DTS-HD?

No and no, read the Onkyo NR1000 thread for more info.

R

No and no, read the Onkyo NR1000 thread for more info.

R
Thanks, Raz. :)

I scanned through an Onkyo NR1000 thread and found some postings on HDMI cards. If I'm reading them correctly, its saying IR will not have an HDMI 1.3 card for the RDC 7.1.

But what about an HDMI 1.1 card? Are there any technical limitations in the design of the RDC 7.1 that would prohibit implementation of HDMI 1.1? AFAIK, working with MC LPCM in the PrePro would fine for enjoying high rez audio, as long as the player outputs that.

Thanks
Bruce

Man... It seems that I, once again ( and probably not the only one ..) have been #¤=)#%) enough to believe that IR this time, actually would release upgrades and/or cards to their flagship....,,,,,

That won't happen obviously,, I might as well keep waiting for my iLink to my RDC 7.0 and my Dvd939 that "was on it's way....",,,
now,, same story again with RDC 7.1....

Hi Bruce,

I have been reading through the Service Manual for the RDC-7.1 and have taken an active part in the TX-NR1K discussion.

It does not look like anything above SPDIF quality is possible using the HDMI slot. I am not an engineer and this is only my interpretation and this only rules out a simple drop in replacement.

Onkyo could offer a double card solution with one in the HDMI slot and the other in the Multichannel in slot with a ribbon cable between them. This would allow at least 7.1 96Khz HDMI 1.1 with 6 HDMI ports or maybe even 192Khz but of course you lose the analogue 7.1 inputs. Another option is to replace the DSP board and offer a direct connection for HDMI audio hence allowing high res HDMI audio including native DTSHD etc.

The video side of things is very easy to upgrade since all the analogue video signals are handed directly to the HDMI slot and all HDMI processing is done on the HDMI card. Video wise HDMI 1.3 looks easy to support, Audio wise things are much more cloudy.

I would be happy with an Ilink Blu/HDDVD combo player. This would allow 5.1 24/192Khz digital audio without any hardware changes to my RDC-7.1.

I would be happy with an Ilink Blu/HDDVD combo player. This would allow 5.1 24/192Khz digital audio without any hardware changes to my RDC-7.1.

i.LINK is dead. I predict you won't see it on any new products. I'm just biding my time until the new Denon AVP comes out in August. At least I'll be able to use the Denon Link between my Denon DVD-3910 and the AVP for DSD & DVD-A.

Man... It seems that I, once again ( and probably not the only one ..) have been #¤=)#%) enough to believe that IR this time, actually would release upgrades and/or cards to their flagship....,,,,,

That won't happen obviously,, I might as well keep waiting for my iLink to my RDC 7.0 and my Dvd939 that "was on it's way....",,,
now,, same story again with RDC 7.1....
I,too, have been waiting for 1394 for my RDC-7. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot is up with that company and how can they continue to hose customers? Raz, I apologize for jousting with you way back then over O/I/IR's outrageous lack of support.

i.LINK is dead. I predict you won't see it on any new products. I'm just biding my time until the new Denon AVP comes out in August. At least I'll be able to use the Denon Link between my Denon DVD-3910 and the AVP for DSD & DVD-A.

I think DenonLink will die at the same time as ILink. They use the same protocol and processing chips, the only real difference is the connector and max distance.

If the RDC 7.1 cannot be, or will not be upgraded to work with the new high rez audio formats, independent of where the decoding is done (HDMI 1.3 vs 1.1), then I am going to have to start considering a new Prepro.

But what to consider is confusing to me at the moment.

Is anyone else thinking they will need to switch to a different PrePro? Any thoughts on a good alternative to the RDC 7.1?

Krobar, thanks for the informative post. One minor point, you mention analogue video signals for HDMI- I thought HDMI carried digital video signals.

Thanks
Bruce

If the RDC 7.1 cannot be, or will not be upgraded to work with the new high rez audio formats, independent of where the decoding is done (HDMI 1.3 vs 1.1), then I am going to have to start considering a new Prepro.

But what to consider is confusing to me at the moment.

Is anyone else thinking they will need to switch to a different PrePro? Any thoughts on a good alternative to the RDC 7.1?
That is the question or, more correctly, will be the question. Are there any announced pre/pros that decode the new Dolby and DTS codecs? Another pertinent question will be how does decoding in any given player compare to the pre/pro being considered? If the decoders in the players are better, then all a pre/pro needs is another set (or two) of 7.1 pass-throughs. All good questions, but again, a bit too soon for answers.

Personally, I'll be looking for an 8-channel, two (or three) by one analog switch because I don't want to be rushed into purchasing something as expensive as a pre/pro.

Hi Bruce,

I have been reading through the Service Manual for the RDC-7.1 [...]
Interesting. After much posturing, I finally got from IR what they called
'service manual'. It consisted of 75 pages of schematic and parts list,
that's it. No PCB layouts, not block diagrams, no adjustment procedures,
no exploded views, no nothing.

I wonder, do you have a 'real' RDC=7.1 service manual? If so, where did
you get it?

TIA,

-- Ron

If the RDC 7.1 cannot be, or will not be upgraded to work with the new high rez audio formats, independent of where the decoding is done (HDMI 1.3 vs 1.1), then I am going to have to start considering a new Prepro.

But what to consider is confusing to me at the moment.

Is anyone else thinking they will need to switch to a different PrePro? Any thoughts on a good alternative to the RDC 7.1?

Krobar, thanks for the informative post. One minor point, you mention analogue video signals for HDMI- I thought HDMI carried digital video signals.

Thanks
Bruce

Hi Bruce,

I might have been a tad unclear with what I meant by analogue video comment. The Integra feeds all analogue input directly to the HDMI card for processing. This means by replacing the HDMI card you can offer all of the HDMI 1.3 video features and better upscaling and deinterlacing with at most just a new HDMI card and firmware update.

I think DenonLink will die at the same time as ILink. They use the same protocol and processing chips, the only real difference is the connector and max distance.

I have it from a reliable source that the AVP will definitely decode DSD & DVD-A native bitstreams via Denon Link.

Hi Bruce,

I might have been a tad unclear with what I meant by analogue video comment. The Integra feeds all analogue input directly to the HDMI card for processing. This means by replacing the HDMI card you can offer all of the HDMI 1.3 video features and better upscaling and deinterlacing with at most just a new HDMI card and firmware update.

Krobar,

The word analogue is confusing me. I thought the HDMI signal is digital, not analogue. On video, HDMI avoids doing D/A and then A/D conversions incurrred if using Component. It was DVI at first, and now HDMI, that allows 1:1 pixel mapping for displays that support such without intervening D/A and A/D conversions.

Thanks
Bruce

I am not talking about the routing of the HDMI signals themselves, I am talking about the input of Analogue video sginals that are then deinterlaced, upscaled and ouput from the HDMI card.

HDMI is digital but analogue video signals have to be process somehow to upscale and output over HDMI, sending them directly to the HDMI card increases the possiblity of better future Analogue to HDMI support.

That is the question or, more correctly, will be the question. Are there any announced pre/pros that decode the new Dolby and DTS codecs? Another pertinent question will be how does decoding in any given player compare to the pre/pro being considered? If the decoders in the players are better, then all a pre/pro needs is another set (or two) of 7.1 pass-throughs. All good questions, but again, a bit too soon for answers.

Personally, I'll be looking for an 8-channel, two (or three) by one analog switch because I don't want to be rushed into purchasing something as expensive as a pre/pro.

pepar,

If I am understanding the new high rez audio correctly, if the player decodes and processes the signal to provide MC outputs over analog, and includes bass management, distance compensation, and level adjustment, then the PrePro can just act as a pass through with volume control.

Alternatively, I think the player can be set up to "decode" the format off of the disk, and provide a digital output to the PrePro as linear PCM over HDMI 1.1 or higher. In this case, the PrePro can then apply processing as desired in the digital domain; e.g., DPLIIx and avoid a set of D/A (in the player) and A/D (in the PrePro) conversions.

I am interested in the second example of decoding in the player as I want to avoid analog interconnects and apply HT processing in the PrePro, not the player.

Thanks
Bruce

If the RDC 7.1 cannot be, or will not be upgraded to work with the new high rez audio formats, independent of where the decoding is done (HDMI 1.3 vs 1.1), then I am going to have to start considering a new Prepro.

But what to consider is confusing to me at the moment.

Is anyone else thinking they will need to switch to a different PrePro? Any thoughts on a good alternative to the RDC 7.1?

Krobar, thanks for the informative post. One minor point, you mention analogue video signals for HDMI- I thought HDMI carried digital video signals.

Thanks
Bruce

I'll be switching to the Denon AVP Pre/Pro which is expected in August and may just be a D2 killer. It's basically a AVR-5805CI minus amps including:

HDMI 1.3
Analog to HDMI Conversion and upscaling to 1080p
Realta HQV Processing
Dolby True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio decoding
FLAC/WMA lossless
Wireless audio streaming with WMA support
Windows Media PlaysForSure
HD Radio/XM/AM/FM (independent/simultaneous multi-zone capable)
Multi Channel Zone 2 Output for dual surround zones
Zone 4 Digital Audio
Simply HD Certified silicon image approves connectivity and operability
Remote maintenance program
Balanced outputs

I am not talking about the routing of the HDMI signals themselves, I am talking about the input of Analogue video sginals that are then deinterlaced, upscaled and ouput from the HDMI card.

HDMI is digital but analogue video signals have to be process somehow to upscale and output over HDMI, sending them directly to the HDMI card increases the possiblity of better future Analogue to HDMI support.

Krobar,

Hmmm, I may not understand all this correctly, or I may be remiss in understanding what you are trying to convey- apologies if that is the case.

Can you give an example of what you mean by input of an analogue video signal? Are you thinking of a video signal fed to a PrePro in analog format via Component, and then the PrePro converts that so it can be output over HDMI to the TV?

When I think of HDMI in a PrePro, I'm viewing it as enabling input, processing, and output of video and audio as digital signals rather than analog. It avoids D/A and A/D conversions, and analog connections.

DVD stores video as digital data, not analog. If deinterlacing, scaling, upconversion, etc. is done in the DVD player, it is performed in the digital domain. The output of the DVD player can be sent to the PrePro as digital, avoiding analog altogether, using HDMI.

There is a similar thing with a STB that has an HDMI output- the video signal can be fed to the PrePro as digital, rather than analog, using the PrePro's HDMI input.

Thanks
Bruce

I'll be switching to the Denon AVP Pre/Pro which is expected in August and may just be a D2 killer. It's basically a AVR-5805CI minus amps including:

HDMI 1.3
Analog to HDMI Conversion and upscaling to 1080p
Realta HQV Processing
Dolby True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio decoding
FLAC/WMA lossless
Wireless audio streaming with WMA support
Windows Media PlaysForSure
HD Radio/XM/AM/FM (independent/simultaneous multi-zone capable)
Multi Channel Zone 2 Output for dual surround zones
Zone 4 Digital Audio
Simply HD Certified silicon image approves connectivity and operability
Remote maintenance program
Balanced outputs

gimp,

Do you have any idea of what the price will be?

Thanks
Bruce

if the player decodes and processes the signal to provide MC outputs over analog, and includes bass management, distance compensation, and level adjustment, then the PrePro can just act as a pass through with volume control.

Alternatively, . . the player can be set up to "decode" the format off of the disk, and provide a digital output to the PrePro as linear PCM over HDMI 1.1 or higher. In this case, the PrePro can then apply processing as desired in the digital domain; e.g., DPLIIx and avoid a set of D/A (in the player) and A/D (in the PrePro) conversions.
That's my understanding as well. The third way would be for the player to output the data stream and the pre/pro do the decoding and DAC'ing. I'll allow that one of these ways may be inherently superior, but otherwise, it comes down to which piece of gear has the best electronics, i.e. decoder and DACs.

I'll be switching to the Denon AVP Pre/Pro which is expected in August and may just be a D2 killer. It's basically a AVR-5805CI minus amps including:

HDMI 1.3
Analog to HDMI Conversion and upscaling to 1080p
Realta HQV Processing
Dolby True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio decoding
FLAC/WMA lossless
Wireless audio streaming with WMA support
Windows Media PlaysForSure
HD Radio/XM/AM/FM (independent/simultaneous multi-zone capable)
Multi Channel Zone 2 Output for dual surround zones
Zone 4 Digital Audio
Simply HD Certified silicon image approves connectivity and operability
Remote maintenance program
Balanced outputs
W O W ! :eek:

I have it from a reliable source that the AVP will definitely decode DSD & DVD-A native bitstreams via Denon Link.

Do you think Denon will continue to support Denonlink in its future HD Sources?

gimp,

Do you have any idea of what the price will be?

Thanks
Bruce

Sorry, I don't. I speculate that it will be priced at a modest premium over the D2, since that would be its closest competitor and the AVP offers significantly more capability. BTW, the "AVP" model designation was simply the moniker used to refer to the prototypes at CES. I'm sure the actual model number will be different.

Do you think Denon will continue to support Denonlink in its future HD Sources?

I'm confident they will support Denon Link for at least one or two more product generations. By then, SACD/DVD-A may be obsoleted by BD/HD-DVD. I'd be surprised if Denon didn't announce a mid to high-end BD/HD-DVD combo player as soon as their line show or CEDIA at the latest. I'm confident that such a player would pass a DVD-A bitstream natively over HDMI and Denon Link. If such a combo player includes SACD, I'd expect native DSD bitstream support only via Denon Link. Although beginning with version 1.2 the HDMI spec supports native DSD bitstreams, I don't think any future product implementations from any manufacturer will support it. Don't expect to see i.LINK on any future products from Denon.

I'm confident they will support Denon Link for at least one or two more product generations. By then, SACD/DVD-A may be obsoleted by BD/HD-DVD. I'd be surprised if Denon didn't announce a mid to high-end BD/HD-DVD combo player as soon as their line show or CEDIA at the latest. I'm confident that such a player would pass a DVD-A bitstream natively over HDMI and Denon Link. If such a combo player includes SACD, I'd expect native DSD bitstream support only via Denon Link. Although beginning with version 1.2 the HDMI spec supports native DSD bitstreams, I don't think any future product implementations from any manufacturer will support it. Don't expect to see i.LINK on any future products from Denon.

Interesting..

Hi, i'm looking for some quick answers...so i'm, umm.....errr, taking the easy way out here i guess, feeling lazy and all that. Recently took the plunge into bluray with PS3 into my RDC-7.1 via
optical audio and component video. I am contemplating getting a 2nd gen standalone bluray player this fall. My rdc-7.1 does not have the dual 7.1 input card. I've read some rumblings that there may finally be an ungraded hdmi card solution on or around the same time Onkyo releases their new line this fall. If the hdmi card doesn't appear, what audio capability will the analog 7.1 card give me beyond my current setup?....i'm thinking of buying the 7.1 input card and an hdmi switcher if the hdmi card upgrade scenario goes bust. Am i right in assuming any BR player with 7.1 outs will feed a decoded signal to rdc7.1 and it will handle it?.......the worry of new codecs is deferred to players internal decoder supporting them, yeah? Where does lpcm uncompressed audio fit into a player with 7.1 outs and an rdc7.1 with 7.1 input card?...or does it? Finally, rough cost of multi-input card?...availability?

Thx & rgds,

Andy.

Dtc9.8

Hi, i'm looking for some quick answers...so i'm, umm.....errr, taking the easy way out here i guess, feeling lazy and all that. Recently took the plunge into bluray with PS3 into my RDC-7.1 via
optical audio and component video. I am contemplating getting a 2nd gen standalone bluray player this fall. My rdc-7.1 does not have the dual 7.1 input card. I've read some rumblings that there may finally be an ungraded hdmi card solution on or around the same time Onkyo releases their new line this fall. If the hdmi card doesn't appear, what audio capability will the analog 7.1 card give me beyond my current setup?....i'm thinking of buying the 7.1 input card and an hdmi switcher if the hdmi card upgrade scenario goes bust. Am i right in assuming any BR player with 7.1 outs will feed a decoded signal to rdc7.1 and it will handle it?.......the worry of new codecs is deferred to players internal decoder supporting them, yeah? Where does lpcm uncompressed audio fit into a player with 7.1 outs and an rdc7.1 with 7.1 input card?...or does it? Finally, rough cost of multi-input card?...availability?

Thx & rgds,

Andy.

Cost of the card is about $150.

What audio you get through it depends on the player, some will only decode DVD sound formats and DD Plus. Others can decode Dolby TrueHD as well (Like the new Pioneer and Toshiba HD DVD players), the Panasonic can decode DTS-HD and DVD-Audio on top of that. Virtually all players that will decode and output over HDMI will also ouput at full quality over analogue 5.1/7.1. The best choice come January might be the rumoured Pioneer BDP-LX90, this offers all audio format decoding and ILink!