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Making a Home Theater Sound Good: “Implementation Guide” companion to the CEDIA/CTA-RP22 Immersive Audio Design Recommended Practice (in first post)

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41K views 163 replies 23 participants last post by  appelz  
#1 · (Edited)
(You don't need to read this whole thread. This first post is regularly updated with all the available information we can find.)

CEDIA and the CTA have taken a few decades of best practices about dedicated theater design and construction (the audio half in this case) and summarized it in one document. It is available for free to anyone with an interest in reading it:


They have organized it around 21 design goals, and four levels of performance for each goal. The traditional "reference" level is level 3. But for many of us, level 1 would be more than enough to be satisfied. So it's great they have put rigor into not just a single level of performance.

At first blush, this list might seem like a recipe book.

A closer look at the details behind each performance parameter reveals a very articulate explanation of the performance goal, and relatively little detail about how to achieve it. That's fine: The document was not designed to tell you HOW to achieve these goals in a comprehensive manner. (And there will be a second document about measurement details or how to assess a room.)

This post tries to collect additional "how to" guidance for enthusiasts. Results are not guaranteed, but hopefully we can help each other up level and better predict what factors will make the most improvement to our personal screening rooms.

IMO, this guide produces better results than some of the traditional tools like: The academic, technically correct, allocentric speaker layout ,as well as Dolby's official (and free) design tool that uses angles to position speakers for a single listener in a mastering suite.

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Some are easy to understand how to implement: Parameter One says that a reference level (3) theater will have no seats within 4 feet of a wall. That tells you the goal AND how to achieve it.

Some are difficult to achieve: Parameter Fifteen is that a reference level (3) theater will ideally have a background noise level of NCB 18. That's super non trivial. And RP22 does not explain how to achieve that in enough detail that you could direct a contractor in the building process (or do it yourself) without additional knowledge.

The additional knowledge, in most cases, is "out there."

Intrepid enthusiasts can use this post to help in finding that additional knowledge. This post is not "complete" and if you have additions that will help make it more complete and or accurate, please share them.

The goal here is a guide to how to achieve the performance levels outlined in RP22 when the methods are not self evident or explained in actionable detail in RP22. This thread is not intended as a place to debate RP22 itself.


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Implementation Guide

1. Seating/Room Wall Distance

Self explanatory.


2. Decoder Channels

Self explanatory.


3. Screen wall speaker locations

Self explanatory.


4. Maximum SPL differences between screen wall speakers

This is achieved not just through speaker sensitivity/power handling/output but also through amplification and through distance differences, as well. Use a calculator to assess the speakers, such as the Peak SPL Calculator to see whether the speakers are within the correct range of one another. Example from RP22 doc.


5. Maximum horizontal angle between adjacent surround speakers

On an accurate drawing, use a protractor. In the room, the “compass” app on a smart phone can aid in the visualization.


6. Maximum SPL differences between surround speakers

This is achieved not just through speaker sensitivity/power handling/output but also through amplification and through distance differences, as well. Use a calculator to assess the speakers, such as the Peak SPL Calculator to see whether the speakers are within the correct range of one another. Example from RP22 doc.


7. Wide speaker deviation from median angle.

On an accurate drawing, use a ruler and then a protractor. In the room, a measuring tape, and then the “compass” app on a smart phone, can aid in the visualization.


8. Upfiring speakers allowed

Self explanatory.


9. Allowable vertical angle.

On an accurate drawing, use a protractor. In the room, there may be some “level” apps on a smart phone can aid in the visualization, but I use a laser level/distance device.


10. Max spl difference between upper level speakers

This is achieved not just through speaker sensitivity/power handling/output but also through amplification and through distance differences, as well. Use a calculator to assess the speakers, such as the Peak SPL Calculator to see whether the speakers are within the correct range of one another. Example from RP22 doc.


11. Number of speakers allowed outside of zonal recommendations

Self explanatory.


12. Screen speakers spl capability

This is achieved not just through speaker sensitivity/power handling/output but also through amplification and through distance differences, as well. Use a calculator to assess the speakers, such as the Peak SPL Calculator to see whether the speakers can reach sufficient output levels. Example from RP22 doc.


13. Non screen speakers spl capabilities

This is achieved not just through speaker sensitivity/power handling/output but also through amplification and through distance differences, as well. Use a calculator to assess the speakers, such as the Peak SPL Calculator to see whether the speakers can reach sufficient output levels. Example from RP22 doc.


14. Bass spl capabilities

CEDIA hasn't defined how this is modeled, but it can be measured after the fact. However, other folks have done the modeling part. More than a decade ago, Audioholics published their room sizing guide, which translated CEA2010 subwoofer measurements into "X sub can play at Y level in room volume Z" but their guide focused on output at 31hz. THX has done something similar (though more opaque) that appears to target 20hz output. A thread at AVForums started by MR Wolf in the UK published the following info, which is the best modeling approach available to the public at present:

How to use the ratings table

First, determine the maximum listening level, relative to cinema reference, that your subwoofers need to support in your system. Provided your AVR/processor is calibrated to 0dB volume being 85dB reference level (not all are), this will be the lowest volume setting you use to generate the same maximum level of loudness at which you listen. As Blu-rays and DVDs are normally mastered higher than streaming sources, this is likely to be the volume setting that you use with these. Most people's maximum listening level seems to fall in the -10dB to -15dB range.

Now you know your listening level requirement, scan down the column that’s closest to your room size until you get to this number. Every sub at or above this row in the table should be capable of meeting your system's maximum low frequency output needs without distorting.

Sub output typically increases by 4-5dB for every doubling of the number of subs if they are time aligned but not co-located. So for systems with two, three or four identical time aligned subs you can increase the table’s maximum listening levels by 4dB, 6dB or 8dB respectively.

Example: If you listen at -10dB in a 2,750Ft3 room then every subwoofer in the table above an SVS SB-3000 [only -11db capable in a 2,750Ft3 room] should provide enough output. Note that dual SB-3000s would be capable as they should support a -7dB listening level.

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THX and Audioholics room size ratings

A home cinema system's subwoofer output requirement is, to a greater extent, a function of listening level, room volume and the low frequency content of the movies being played. Two information sources currently exist that advise on a specific subwoofer model's suitability for particular room sizes. These are THX and Audioholics.

THX has its Select, Ultra and Dominus programmes under which it tests and certifies subs as being capable of achieving cinema reference level in 2,000Ft3, 3,000Ft3 and 6,500Ft3 rooms respectively.

THX’s certification method isn’t published but a requirement is widely believed to be that frequency response must be flat to 20Hz. So to be THX certified, a sub must be able to hit 115dB reference level peaks with minimal distortion at 20Hz. Very few manufacturers choose to participate in this programme these days so unfortunately very few THX certified subwoofers exist. You will however find THX certified subwoofer models from Monoprice, Perlisten and M&K.

In contrast, AV guru website Audioholics (“AH”) assign room size ratings to the many subs it reviews and measures based on its estimate of their ability to hit 115dB at 31.5Hz (and 109dB at 25Hz) in rooms of different volumes from under 1,500Ft3 to over 5,000Ft3.

This is a significantly easier performance target to hit than THX’s as most subs have far more output capability at 31.5Hz than they do at 20Hz. AH’s rating method is simply to add 9dB to CEA-2010 RMS@2M output at 31.5Hz and adjust this result by +/-6dB per halving/doubling of room volume from a 3,000Ft3 baseline due to a change in sound pressure, e.g. 1,500Ft3/6000Ft3 rooms add/subtract 6dB from the result due to doubling/halving of volume.

My maximum listening level ratings

The main limitation of the THX/AH subwoofer ratings is the fact that almost nobody listens at cinema reference level in their homes. As listening between 10dB and 20dB below reference level can require only 1% to 10% of the amplifier power, the THX/AH ratings can lead to seriously over-specifying the subwoofer output needs of some systems.

In order to address this, using THX’s tougher 20Hz lowest frequency hurdle and AH’s CEA-2010 to in-room output adjustment method, I’ve estimated various subwoofers’ abilities to support different listening levels (relative to reference) in room sizes from 1,250Ft3 to 5,000Ft3. The maximum listening level capability is calculated simply by subtracting 115dB from the subwoofer’s estimated in-room output at 20Hz and these are the figures that are shown in the table.

Apparently, due to psycho-acoustics in smaller spaces, listening at -10dB sounds about as loud as cinema reference level (i.e. 0dB) does in large commercial cinemas. This is why I have referred to the silver highlighted >-10dB ratings as "home reference level".

Why I used a 20Hz low frequency hurdle and not 31.5Hz like AH

AH’s rating system is based on 31.5Hz output due to the bass content of >90% of movies being >30Hz. While this is probably correct, I chose to use THX’s more challenging 20Hz standard for the following reasons:
  • 20Hz is the frequency at which subwoofers can produce the least output in their typical 20-120Hz audible range of operation in a home cinema system. A sub’s maximum clean SPL output at 20Hz is therefore the limiting factor on maximum volume capability if a flat, undistorted, response down to 20Hz is desired on dynamic peaks.
  • A 31.5Hz hurdle is likely to be too high for movies with very low frequency content. As 20Hz is the lowest audible frequency, if a soundtrack contains 20Hz content, then distortion might be audible if a sub lacks sufficient output capability here. Also, <31.5Hz content is not just reserved for minority interest sci-fi movies as even naturally occurring deep bass sound effects (e.g. thunder) can be as low as 20Hz.
  • THX uses 20Hz for its certification programme so this method, in effect, provides THX style ratings that are adjusted for different room sizes and listening levels. This also provides a useful source of validation by looking at THX rated subs for which CEA-2010 output data is available.
If you feel a 20Hz output hurdle is too harsh for your system (some subs cannot even reach 20Hz) and you want to know the higher listening level capability that would have been derived under AH’s method then simply add the dB uplift from 20Hz to 31.5Hz. This uplift can be derived from output figures shown in the table by subtracting the 20Hz output figure from the 31.5Hz output figure for a particular sub. For sealed subs with a relatively low output at 20Hz this uplift will be significant and, if your movies have no content <31.5Hz, the uplifted maximum listening level capability at 31.5Hz would be appropriate.

Alternatively, refer to the table at the end of this post which shows maximum listening level capability on the basis of 31.5Hz output.

15. Background Noise Floor

From: Soundproofing does not exist... but Isolation can:

Sound isolation for a home theater is important for two reasons:

1). Don't disturb the neighbors! ie, sound getting out.
2). Don't disturb the movie! ie, sound getting in can distract from the movie experience, mask sounds in the sound track, make dialog hard to hear, etc.

Perfection is (literally) a million dollar target, but great improvements can be made for much more modest sums.

One of the first specifications for sound proofing isolation was that "Home Theater Recommended Practice Audio Design Home Theater Recommended Practices/ Audio Design CTA/CEDIA-CEB22 R-2018 (Formerly CEA/CEDIA-CEB22)." It was available for free from Consumer Technology Association Publications Store or you can pay upwards of $75 to download it from other sites.


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So when you combine those goals with construction techniques, you get:

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In 2023 the CTA and CEDIA published more nuanced guidelines to four levels of sound isolation in the CEDIA/CTA-RP22 document titled "Immersive Audio Design Recommended Practices" (available for free on the CEDIA web site). Here are key pieces of the standard, and their advise on construction considerations. Then, there follows the bulk of this post, which is a description for the DIYer about How to achieve many of the things described.

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The levels are defined this way:

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How does that compare with a "normal" room?

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But while that document contains some general guidelines, it doesn't contain enough construction details to help a DIYer do the work or oversee the work. But it contains some clues:

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So, the gold standard, even if the building is stand alone because sound can come from anywhere outside (cars, trucks, planes, dogs, chainsaws, your neighbor's helipad, your wife's elephant) is a room within a room -- where the walls and ceiling of the theater do not touch the walls and ceiling or any other part of the outside building. It's even possible to have the floor "float" but building onto a concrete slab is likely enough for many of us.

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There are other, often quite effective, methods such as the popular and useful clips and hat channel approach.

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The soundproofing company web site shows the relative effectiveness and construction techniques of many of these approaches. Many of these photos are from their web site.

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They have MANY other recipes on their web site. Check them out. But to continue with this "gold standard" approach of double stud walls, some additional details they provide are below:

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Or details for clips and channels:
  • The clips are attached in a linear pattern perpendicular to the studs or joists and at a maximum distance of 48” on center. For walls, the bottom row should be no more than 2-inches from the floor, and 6-inches or closer to the ceiling. For ceilings, fasten the clips within 8-inches of the walls at the ends of each run of each channel.
  • The maximum separation between rows is 24-inches for one layer of 5/8” gypsum, and 16-inches for a double layer. A clip should fully support the ends of each row.
  • Secure the isolation clip following the manufacturer’s instructions. The clips are fastened to the wood with 2-1/2” Type W screws, or steel with 1-5/8” Type S screws. Do not use nails.
  • Using Sound Isolation Clips with Hat Channel
  • The hat channels should be a minimum of 25 gauge steel, between 7/8” and 1-1/2” deep and have a 1-1/4” crown to seat the drywall against. The channel is pinched into the clip and should be overlapped 6-inches midway between clips, and secured with screws or wire.
  • Drywall panels are secured to the furring strips with S Type bugle head screws 1-1/8” for 1/2” gypsum, 1-1/4” for 5/8” sheets, or 1-5/8” screws for two layers of gypsum.
  • The gypsum panels should have a 1/4″ around their perimeter which should be filled with acoustic caulking, as should any electrical or ductwork through the drywall. Sound isolation clips with hat channels and drywall provide an excellent sound barrier for insulated walls and ceilings. Unfortunately, attaching cabinets and bookshelves is not recommended.
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Okay, so what does all this look like in practice when you get to the drywall hanging? Remarkably similar for double studs walls versus clips and channels.

First, leave a 1/4" gap at floor and ceiling, and use acoustic caulk to bridge it. You'll be using caulk many other places, often in places you might think mud would be the thing to use....

And you'll have many other particulars to pay attention to:

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That photo and drawing doesn't show the so called "Green Glue," but it should be there. That photo assumes double studs walls since you see the drywall being attached to wood and now hat channel supported by clips.

And I should mention that Green Glue is NOT the only acceptable solution. There are others like:

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But no one has found something cheaper than green glue......Anyway, back to construction examples:

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And remember that decoupled ceiling? It gets a similar approach:

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Keep in mind that one wall or section of the room that isn't done as well as the rest of the room can significantly impact the rest of the room. Think: Is a bucket that is 90% solid capable of holding water as well as one that doesn't have a 10% hole?

The key places things can fall apart even if you are careful: Doors, HVAC, Outlets, and other penetrations.

Door Construction is a little unusual:
  • Don’t leave the usual gaps between frame and wall found in traditional building
  • Make it small and fill with generous amount of acoustic caulk (not rigid foam, not mud, or similar)
  • Unless you want to pay up for a specialized door (which can weigh hundreds of pounds and cost thousands of dollars, at a minimum, a door should be a 1 3/4 inch thick solid core. “solid core 1 ¾" (commercial thickness) flush/slab interior doors”
  • Sealing: Around the edges of the door use rubber seals. On the bottom of the door, use a mechanical seal that will press down on the floor when the door is closed, like excellent weather sealing.

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Gaskets are available from several companies. Soundproofing Company shows how theirs should be used, here, and other companies like Zero International have other styles and options and price points.

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Heck, a very serious good won't have a handle that goes through the door since that penetration can allow more sound to escape than a solid door otherwise would. In such situations, a magnet might be used to old the door closed, and the handle might just be secured to the surface on each side....

And if you have built a whole double wall system, then a dual door system is a wise move, versus a single door. It will really reduce sound transmission.

Here is an example from a fellow AVS member.

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The door is often the weakest link, and as Norman Varney notes:

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Here is a nice short video with some examples of some basic building techniques.


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Other things to worry about?

HVAC can bring in sound and let sound out. (The flow of air can also disturb an otherwise silent room.)

Soundproofing company again is a good resource....

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... but creativity and collaboration with a good HVAC specialist it likely required for each specific case. A fellow member built mufflers like these for their diffusers and air return.

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Outlet boxes, in wall speakers, and so on all break the barriers you have created and must be handled well.

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Keep in mind, as well, that the only sound you want to hear in the theater is from the content in the movie. Background noise created IN the theater needs to be well controlled too. HVAC, projector exhaust, the wine fridge, and so on all need to be controlled well:

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16. Seat to seat frequency response variance among screen wall speakers.

REW measurement, or similar, once room is built -- but that would be too late. Method for predicting ahead of time is not defined by CEDIA nor the CTA at present.


17. Seat to seat frequency response variance among non screen wall speakers.

REW measurement, or similar, once room is built -- but that would be too late. Method for predicting ahead of time is not defined by CEDIA nor the CTA at present.


18. In Room bass extension -3db frequency cutoff point.

Covered under #14, though the table only goes down to 20hz.


19. Frequency response below the room's transition frequency.

REW measurement, or similar, once room is built -- but that would be too late. Method for predicting ahead of time is not defined by CEDIA nor the CTA at present.


20. Seat to seat frequency response variant from the RSP below the room's transition frequency.

REW measurement, or similar, once room is built -- but that would be too late. Method for predicting ahead of time is not defined by CEDIA nor the CTA at present.


21. Level of early reflections relative to direct sound.

Dolby, many rooms designers like Erskine and Grimani, and countless top level room on AVS have used RT60 or reflected decay times to assess room acoustics. That approach can still produce excellent results: How Many Panels and Traps Do I Need?: RT60, RDT, REW... It is NOT the complete answer to achieving the results specified in RP22, but it is a big step in that direction.
 
#116 ·
We really don't have good evidence that all mastering suites are using a 25hz high pass filter.

All respect to Matthew Poes, and I don't doubt he has talked with some folks who master movies and TV shows for the home, but before concluding that no one is intentionally putting audio below 25hz into their movies, we'd need a much more thorough collection of data.

My hypothesis would be that sometimes there is content below 20hz by mistake, sometimes by design; that some mastering engineers in some mastering houses use a high pass filter on their monitoring system, or actually high pass filter their content, or simple have gear that rolls off sharply after 25hz -- and that some mastering engineers in some mastering courses don't use a high pass filter either in monitoring or in their content creation, and or don't have gear that drops off sharply below 25hz.

Even Matt, who raised the issue in his video, designs his rooms to play below 20hz in almost all cases.

All I can confidently say is that if one wants SMPTE appropriate response, getting 25hz extension is enough to satisfy that goal.
 
#121 ·
We really don't have good evidence that all mastering suites are using a 25hz high pass filter.

All respect to Matthew Poes, and I don't doubt he has talked with some folks who master movies and TV shows for the home, but before concluding that no one is intentionally putting audio below 25hz into their movies, we'd need a much more thorough collection of data.
I'm not sure this will answer the question, but when you said collection of data I thought of the SMPTE report on the performance of cinemas and dubbing stages.

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This link will initiate a PDF download.
 
#117 ·
I've spent enough time in the BEQ thread for it to become quite clear that the project actually exists to insert as much bass as possible into everything, regardless of how it was mixed or why.
LOL! Yeah that seems like where it’s evolved, but it really is why the project was originally created. Some of the folks that create the BEQ files do a MUCH better job of balancing things without just trying to always turn the bass to 11.

What makes it "clearly intentional"?
IME, when I’ve heard unintentional content, it doesn’t support what’s going on in the movie. That’s pretty rare in my experience. It’s clear in Oppenheimer it supports what’s happening. It’s been a while since I watched it but I believe both the atom bomb scene and his atom dreams or hallucinations or whatever, are the scenes where it’s obvious there’s infrasonic content that’s meant to pull the viewer further into the movie.

I personally believe EoT was supposed to have that sine wave thing as well, but it was left too hot on the 1080p release. I prefer the 4K version where you feel something is “off” at the intro, without shaking the crap out of the room, which helps increase a sense of anxiety or “wrongness” with what’s happening in that movie’s world.

They're hardly independent. The point of building a theater to the RP22 spec is to play back content, after all, not to just have it sit idle or play REW test tones
That’s fair. It will be interesting to see where RP22 leads pro designers. I know of at least one well regarded designer tweaking his offerings to include RP22 design, performance criteria, and certification in their offerings. I’m sure there are a ton of others I don’t know about.
 
#120 ·
We really don't have good evidence that all mastering suites are using a 25hz high pass filter.
Evidence that literally all suites use the filter is impossible, true. But I've yet to see any evidence that even one isn't using the filter. For all the people saying "yes, there's lots of things mixed intentionally with infrasonic bass," you'd think there would be at least one piece of actual concrete evidence somewhere to support that. I've yet to see it. I would love to hear from those involved with EOT, frankly.


LOL! Yeah that seems like where it’s evolved, but it really is why the project was originally created. Some of the folks that create the BEQ files do a MUCH better job of balancing things without just trying to always turn the bass to 11.
I went in trying to ascertain which was which and got laughed out of the thread.


IME, when I’ve heard unintentional content, it doesn’t support what’s going on in the movie. That’s pretty rare in my experience. It’s clear in Oppenheimer it supports what’s happening. It’s been a while since I watched it but I believe both the atom bomb scene and his atom dreams or hallucinations or whatever, are the scenes where it’s obvious there’s infrasonic content that’s meant to pull the viewer further into the movie.
But that could just as easily be a side effect of whatever was done to create higher-frequency bass, could it not?

I personally believe EoT was supposed to have that sine wave thing as well, but it was left too hot on the 1080p release. I prefer the 4K version where you feel something is “off” at the intro, without shaking the crap out of the room, which helps increase a sense of anxiety or “wrongness” with what’s happening in that movie’s world.
EOT is just weird. Obviously my gear can't go down that low, but it doesn't generate any physical feeling at all, plus it abruptly cuts off all higher-frequency sound, so it's just a weird droning noise that probably isn't having the effect it was intended to have, whatever that was, in my setup.
 
#122 ·
But that could just as easily be a side effect of whatever was done to create higher-frequency bass, could it not?
I wouldn’t expect that in a mix but can’t say it’s impossible. IMD can cause harmonic distortion that produces unwanted noise at frequencies lower than the two fundamental frequencies, but that doesn’t mean it’s audible. Like harmonic distortion, the amplitude of the IMD harmonics are a lot lower than the fundamentals. Perhaps if the mix has a lot of dynamic range compression (like streaming)?
 
#124 ·
Keep in mind that for the sheer size of your average commercial cinema, it would take an unreasonable amount of energy to attempt to generate frequencies below 20hz equivalent to those above it. I can understand rolling off frequencies below 25hz. From what I understand, most commercial cinemas don't play much below 30hz. Imax theaters are about -6db at 23hz or so (or maybe it was 20hz).
 
#125 ·
Yes, and the deeper the bass, the more it leaks to the adjacent theaters, which increases the SPL of complaints.
 
#126 ·
Yeah I'm not a fan of these shoebox multiplex cinemas adjacent to each other instead of spread out by a bit of distance on a larger piece of land.
 
#127 ·
Question for @appelz or others deep in the RP22 ecosystem:

5. Maximum horizontal angle between adjacent surround speakers

For parameter #5, what counts as "adjacent"? Clearly all of the speakers along a given wall count (such as L-Lw-Ls1-Ls2-Lrs). But what about the gap between the left & right sides?

Unfortunately, I've had to make a mid-construction adjustment to the location of the back surrounds: they now sit in the corners, rather than hung on the rear wall, leading to an angle >80 degrees. I'm reaching Level 4 on almost all other criteria (except noise floor), but if this Lrs-Rrs gap counts, that would place me back at Level 1 :(

So, does spatial resolution back there matter to the RP22 scoring and/or to real-world perceived immersion? If so, would there be value in rigging up a "back center surround" channel, perhaps by feeding Lrs+Rrs into a mid/side encoder?
 
#128 · (Edited)
But what about the gap between the left & right sides?
They are adjacent, if you mean back left and back right speakers in a seven bed layer system where you have L, R, C, SSx2, RSx2.
Unfortunately, I've had to make a mid-construction adjustment to the location of the back surrounds: they now sit in the corners, rather than hung on the rear wall, leading to an angle >80 degrees. I'm reaching Level 4 on almost all other criteria (except noise floor), but if this Lrs-Rrs gap counts, that would place me back at Level 1 :(

So, does spatial resolution back there matter to the RP22 scoring and/or to real-world perceived immersion? If so, would there be value in rigging up a "back center surround" channel, perhaps by feeding Lrs+Rrs into a mid/side encoder?
Think of RP22 in this case as a RED LIGHT pointing to an area of compromise in the theater layout.

Every home theater, even those in the seven figure range, have to choose what compromises to accept based on the limitations that exist in the real world. RP22 is pointing out that you have a decision to make.

Personally, I'd be more concerned about the noise floor being at level 1, than the rear surrounds being too wide and therefor at level 1.

If you are not in the "zone" for the rear surrounds, I might even forgo them....

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.....but it sounds like you may still be within the right zone? I don't see details about this issue in your build thread. That would be the place to discuss and solve this. For example, if you really have space for an extra single rear surround center speaker, I'd suggest the two rear speakers go in that general location. But without seeing your actual room and layout, no one can really begin to judge the impact of the compromise one way or the other well.
 
#130 ·
Personally, I'd be more concerned about the noise floor being at level 1
I have tinnitus; the noise floor of my own head doesn't meet the level 1 noise floor criterion...
 
#137 ·
CEDIA/CTA RP1 will establish requesting the data required from manufacturers to more easily engineer and accurately predict results for the performance criteria in RP22. We are also working on providing more documents and education within the CEDIA channel to guide integrators for best practices and design tools. RP22 was never intended to be a "how to". We always knew it was just the start of the road map. We needed to establish Performance Criteria, then get more manufacturers to publish the data required to design and engineer rooms to meet those performance criteria, and finally, education on how to use that data properly.
 
#138 ·
One thing I think would be highly beneficial would be if someone build a "Theater Designer" based on the RP-22 criteria.

You would be able to plug in your dimensions, your equipment, tell it your acoustics etc and it could tell you what the estimated level of the theater would be.

Something like the Dolby Atmos studio designer (but more oriented toward viewing spaces, not mixing rooms) or like Audio Advices theater designers but far more complete in the types of setups it allows for.

Maybe The Cinema Designer can do that but I havent purchased access to that yet. (I might at some point)
 
#139 ·
@fattire the price is between $4k-6000, as i am not based in US this is extremely costly... wont be able to afford that any any near feature.

So no idea how to approach it.

You would be able to plug in your dimensions, your equipment, tell it your acoustics etc and it could tell you what the estimated level of the theater would be.
was desperately looking for such a tool even for hifi 2.0 w/out any luck.
Question would be if such a tools are commercial or does exist.


thanks
 
#140 · (Edited)
One thing I think would be highly beneficial would be if someone build a "Theater Designer" based on the RP-22 criteria.

You would be able to plug in your dimensions, your equipment, tell it your acoustics etc and it could tell you what the estimated level of the theater would be.

Something like the Dolby Atmos studio designer (but more oriented toward viewing spaces, not mixing rooms) or like Audio Advices theater designers but far more complete in the types of setups it allows for.

Maybe The Cinema Designer can do that but I havent purchased access to that yet. (I might at some point)
@fattire the price is between $4k-6000, as i am not based in US this is extremely costly... wont be able to afford that any any near feature.

So no idea how to approach it.


was desperately looking for such a tool even for hifi 2.0 w/out any luck.
Question would be if such a tools are commercial or does exist.


thanks
The best free tool is the theater builder tool on the Advice Advice web site. It does NOT figure out RP22 for you, but keeps one from making a lot of common mistakes.

The other free tool: AVS Forum has 25 years of people detailing their theater spaces in a wide variety of rooms and at all kinds of budget levels. Find a few that are similar to your room and what you want. Ask questions about them. And consider copying them!

There are also a few hobbyists who frequent the forums here who provide informal services for prices much lower than the certified professionals. Best to start a new topic asking for recommendations.

Or use the first post of this thread as a guide to how you can find the resources to do it yourself, which is the intention of the thread ;)
 
#141 ·
I find Audio Advices tool to be inadequate for anyone doing anything beyond the dolby atmos paradigm. No height channel support. No voice of god support. Only counts up to 9.1.6. Cant do 8 overheads or 10 overheads. No center surround (rear). No surround arrays or rear surround arrays. Its incredibly basic. But to be fair, its free, so we cant expect it to do everything. But the fact that it only supports top channels with no height channels is a major oversight. It doesnt even support more than 2 subwoofers.

The biggest advantage of the Audio Advice tool is its ability to show the potential dispersion pattern based on the speakers locations. But that does you no good if it doesnt support your particular setup.
 
#145 ·
#146 ·
Too lazy to create another thread, and the document is sort of a corollary to RP-22 and RP-32, so mentioning it here.

Reference Audio Level and SPL Capabilities
One of the core performance parameters in CEDIA/CTA-RP22 Immersive Audio Design Recommended Practice is SPL capability. It is often discussed and misunderstood, along with the so-called reference level for listening. In commercial cinema, a reference SPL has long been established and consistently applied to match post-production to intended playback levels in exhibition cinemas. But in private entertainment spaces there's far greater variability in the range and type of source media, type and size of rooms, scope and capability of audio systems, and perception of loudness.

This white paper explores what reference audio level means both for commercial and home consumer content, the many facets of loudness perception, and clarifying the SPL recommendations as set out in RP22.

Reference Audio Level and SPL Capabilities

RP-1-1 Loudspeaker Performance Facts will be released soon for comment, followed by response and any necessary revisions, then a public launch.
 
#147 ·
Too lazy to create another thread, and the document is sort of a corollary to RP-22 and RP-32, so mentioning it here.

Reference Audio Level and SPL Capabilities
One of the core performance parameters in CEDIA/CTA-RP22 Immersive Audio Design Recommended Practice is SPL capability. It is often discussed and misunderstood, along with the so-called reference level for listening. In commercial cinema, a reference SPL has long been established and consistently applied to match post-production to intended playback levels in exhibition cinemas. But in private entertainment spaces there's far greater variability in the range and type of source media, type and size of rooms, scope and capability of audio systems, and perception of loudness.

This white paper explores what reference audio level means both for commercial and home consumer content, the many facets of loudness perception, and clarifying the SPL recommendations as set out in RP22.

Reference Audio Level and SPL Capabilities

RP-1-1 Loudspeaker Performance Facts will be released soon for comment, followed by response and any necessary revisions, then a public launch.
Its paywalled.
Any chance we can get some snippets?

I ask since i highly doubt my local Mexican cinepolis cinemas and cinemas cinemas hit that recommended spl.
At screen recommendations are for left, center and right to be midlevel heights but these caveman cinemas have these 3 important channels at maximum ceiling height thus i doubt its hitting recommendations as far as spl.
As far as lower frequencies these cinemas have a single tiny module with just two 15 inch diameter drivers thus i doubt its hitting recommendations on spl.

South texas AMC and regal in a few cities have these dumb setups also.
 
#163 ·
Brief Delay, some minor changes to legends and such!
 
#164 ·
This will be available again very soon, and will not be behind a paywall. :)